Photos from Featherston's Confederacy/ TL-191

[Alterwright]

Johnny Reb

Yeah, Johnny Reb is undeniably symbolic of the typical Confederate soldier. I would imagine that after the War of Secession however the name "Johnny Reb" might carry with it a certain derogatory tone to it, with US soldiers still referring to Confederate soldiers and "Johnnies".

However, for the South, I think the image of the typical Confederate soldier would lend itself immensely to a male personification of the Confederacy in general, but the Army in particular. The look of a Confederate soldier would remain the same, but perhaps the "Reb" would be dropped in later years... or kept out of pride or something.

Johnny could very well be a personification opposite or akin to Uncle Sam in the United States in TL-191. "Uncle Johnny", "Cousin Johnny", "Sergeant Johnny", "Mister Johnny", "Private Johnny", whatever you want it to be.

 

[Historyman 14]

All of these are very good references and models for a female personification of the Confederacy. And I like the fact that the focus is on Roman or Greek deities as a possible source based what is used in banknotes and such. It also matches up with what the South might actually do in terms of that kind of thing too. They'd want something that looks noble and righteous and such, their own version of Lady Liberty, but different than that of the United States' Columbia (name her Dixie??).

Actually, another source would be from the Virginia Seal and Coat of Arms.

View attachment 455935

^^^ --- It is said that the woman is supposed to be the Roman virtue of "Virtus" on the obverse side, battle ready and victorious. She would represent valor and courage - the willingness to fight tyranny and the spirt to protect the state.

View attachment 455936

^^^ --- On the reverse side we have three Roman goddesses - Libertas, Ceres, and Aeternitas. Ceres represents agriculture, while Libertas is for in liberty and Aeternitas is for eternity - essentially prosperity and peace for Virginia.

In fact, since you guys already mentioned the goddesses Ceres and Libertas already, it is very interesting to note that they are represented here as well, so I think it lends some good reasons as to where the Confederacy might get its female personification.

Yeah, Johnny Reb is undeniably symbolic of the typical Confederate soldier. I would imagine that after the War of Secession however the name "Johnny Reb" might carry with it a certain derogatory tone to it, with US soldiers still referring to Confederate soldiers and "Johnnies".

However, for the South, I think the image of the typical Confederate soldier would lend itself immensely to a male personification of the Confederacy in general, but the Army in particular. The look of a Confederate soldier would remain the same, but perhaps the "Reb" would be dropped in later years... or kept out of pride or something.

Johnny could very well be a personification opposite or akin to Uncle Sam in the United States in TL-191. "Uncle Johnny", "Cousin Johnny", "Sergeant Johnny", "Mister Johnny", "Private Johnny", whatever you want it to be.

Yes, the Confederates had an lot of Roman/Classical stuff for their money. (Plus Proserpina, Tellus, Moneta, Thetis.) Plus what you show adds to it. As for her name. (I Wish I Was in Dixie pretty much popularized the term for the Southland and cast it into iron, and everyone from day one loved it from day one. Even in 1860, the secessionists was alredy using it and the national anthem for Jeff Davis.) 'Dixie' may be the term for the combine Roman Goddesses of Libertas, Ceres, and Aeternitas. (And Virtus may be her own thing.)

I can very well the Confederates keeping 'Johnny Reb' as the Picture of the Underdog fighting the odds and winning, and the Southern Boy. ('Why we fight? Yankee, you down here!') 'Cousin Johnny' sounds pretty nice.

 

[Allochronian]

I'm surprised no one has yet given their opinion on a Southern Belle as a female personification of the Confederacy.

 

[Alterwright]

I'm surprised no one has yet given their opinion on a Southern Belle as a female personification of the Confederacy.

Well yeah! If you're getting away from classical interpretations and into something more akin to the era in terms of dress, the image of the Southern Belle is would be a personification of the Confederacy, probably more along the lines of Marianne in terms of her dressing in clothing from that specific era rather than looking like a classical deity.

I think in the case of TL-191 the image of the Southern Belle as a personification of the Confederacy can work well - instead of an Antebellum look though, we could probably get something more along the lines of a late-19th century to early 20th century look - what the rich the southern ladies would have been wearing in that time and such. She would in this case represent the Confederacy's high society perhaps? Or its culture?

 

[Alterwright]

Yes, the Confederates had an lot of Roman/Classical stuff for their money. (Plus Proserpina, Tellus, Moneta, Thetis.) Plus what you show adds to it. As for her name. (I Wish I Was in Dixie pretty much popularized the term for the Southland and cast it into iron, and everyone from day one loved it from day one. Even in 1860, the secessionists was alredy using it and the national anthem for Jeff Davis.) 'Dixie' may be the term for the combine Roman Goddesses of Libertas, Ceres, and Aeternitas. (And Virtus may be her own thing.)

I can very well the Confederates keeping 'Johnny Reb' as the Picture of the Underdog fighting the odds and winning, and the Southern Boy. ('Why we fight? Yankee, you down here!') 'Cousin Johnny' sounds pretty nice.

Yeah, I think no matter how you spin it a classical looking personification of the Confederacy would very likely be called "Dixie" perhaps. I was thinking something that could have the Latin "-ia" at the end of it, but it wouldn't work.

 

[Historyman 14]

I'm surprised no one has yet given their opinion on a Southern Belle as a female personification of the Confederacy.

Well yeah! If you're getting away from classical interpretations and into something more akin to the era in terms of dress, the image of the Southern Belle is would be a personification of the Confederacy, probably more along the lines of Marianne in terms of her dressing in clothing from that specific era rather than looking like a classical deity.

I think in the case of TL-191 the image of the Southern Belle as a personification of the Confederacy can work well - instead of an Antebellum look though, we could probably get something more along the lines of a late-19th century to early 20th century look - what the rich the southern ladies would have been wearing in that time and such. She would in this case represent the Confederacy's high society perhaps? Or its culture?

Honesty, the Southern Belle would almost always overall represent High Society of the South, but I can see effort of an version that showcases all the of the Confederacy.

 

[Alterwright]

Honesty, the Southern Belle would almost always overall represent High Society of the South, but I can see effort of an version that showcases all the of the Confederacy.

So, we have Dixie, Sallie, and Johnny. Unless there is a more classical sounding name for a classically inspired version of the Confederacy, Dixie might just be the right name. Political cartoons would read, in bold font, "COLUMBIA VS. DIXIE - the DUEL of TITANS".

Johnny would be used for anything relating to the Army or other political matters in satirical cartoons, much like Uncle Sam is portrayed that way. Sallie, the archetypical southern belle of the "Era of Good Feelings" (1882-1914) would be used probably in satirical or political cartoons relating to culture or society, particularly with other nations' personifications.

 

[Danthefan28]

So, we have Dixie, Sallie, and Johnny. Unless there is a more classical sounding name for a classically inspired version of the Confederacy, Dixie might just be the right name. Political cartoons would read, in bold font, "COLUMBIA VS. DIXIE - the DUEL of TITANS".

COLUMBIA V DIXIE: DAWN OF JUSTICE

 

[RaspingLeech]

I like the idea of "Cousin Johnny" as a foil to Uncle Sam. Brotherly states standing alongside each other vs the fatherly federal government figure in a way.

 

[Allochronian]

Photograph of Charlie White, sometime after the First Great War

Charles "Charlie" White was an African-American who served in the United States Navy as a cook.

Born on October 12, 1890, White was born into a Black family in Boston who could trace their lineage of freedom back since before the War of Secession. From a young age, White wanted to work near the sea as a sailor. However, he was only able to get manual labor jobs at Boston Harbor. Despite experiencing racial prejudice from White Americans, he was able to find a group of fishermen who were not hateful towards him, or at least kept their comments to themselves.

Just before the start of the First Great War, White was able to obtain a cooking position onboard the Ripple with the help of George Enos, a fellow fisherman who would always defend him against hecklers. Among the crew, he gained a strong admiration for his cooking skills.

He and his crew were captured by Confederates during GWI and were made into P.O.W.'s until they were exchanged. After the end of the war, White joined the U.S. Navy and was sent to San Diego where he became a senior cook.

When the Confederates invaded the United States in 1941, White was in the Bahamas on the USS New Mexico. During the Confederate attack on Nassau, White was able to operate an anti-aircraft gun when most of the other sailors were killed. White was able to shoot down several Confederate Houndogs before he was forced to abandoned ship when the New Mexico was sunk at the Port of Nassau.

White was presumed to be dead or taken prisoner by the Confederates, however, he and a group of surviving sailors were eventually found in 1943 after the U.S. retook the Bahamas. The small group were able to travel by a lifeboat toward the smaller islands that were part of the Bahamas. They were specifically found on the island of Great Inagua.

After the end of the Second Great War, he, along with other Blacks such as Cassius Madison and Spartacus, became a national war hero.

 

[Alpha-King98760]

African-American actor James Baskett accepts his Oscar for his role as the voice actor for the main character in Walt Disney’s classic “Remus and Janice” (internationally known as “Song of Dixie”) in 1949.
​

The Disney animated feature film “Remus and Janice” is about the struggle of two Blacks in the Confederate States of America, a man named Remus Simmons and his niece Janice, after they and their families are rounded up by the Confederate authorities and taken to Camp Determination from their home in Montgomery, Alabama. The majority of the film takes place inside Camp Determination and all the horrors that happened within its walls, the movie features a song sung by Remus during a couple times called “Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Da”. The song is one of the things that gives the family hope – the other things giving them hope is being together and rumours of Yankee troops getting closer to winning the war and getting closer to Determination. However, after their families are killed by camp guards in the third act amid a Union air raid near the camp Remus and Janice are able to escape Determination (the air raid interrupts their own executions and allows them to escape amid the chaos that results from the attack).

The Simmons family at the opening of the film (Remus is the portly man on the far left & Janice is the little girl in the centre with her parents wearing a spring green dress and a yellow paper crown) – this screenshot is from the 2009 remastered edition for the 60th anniversary of the movie’s release.​

As the movie reaches its climax/ending with the two protagonists desperately trying to evade recapture by the camp’s search parties, Remus and Janice are picked up elements of General Abner Dowling’s Eleventh Army with their pursuers winding up getting captured themselves by Union soldiers. The film ends with Remus and Janice hugging each other with tears streaming down their faces, they are tears of joy because their nightmare is finally over and sorrow because their loved ones are all gone forever and they now only have each other. As the credits roll, Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah is played once again but this time as a duet by Remus and Janice.

Hunting dogs used by the Camp Determination search parties to track down Remus and Janice upon their escape.​

Upon the completion of the first screening to the public at a theatre in New York City in 1949, Walt Disney and Baskett himself came out and revealed that the film was based off the real life experiences of Baskett and his niece, Clara, during the Second Great War with only their names & that of their family changed. The movie would be highly successful, but also controversial for its graphic depiction of the human suffering at Camp Determination and would be regarded as the black sheep of Disney’s animated features for decades to come but would gain a huge fanbase over year that would hail it as a dark cult classic, 2009 would mark 60th anniversary rerelease.

 

[oshron]

​

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too smoothly-drawn and too many gradients for 1949

 

[Alpha-King98760]

too smoothly-drawn and too many gradients for 1949

It’s from the 2009 remastered edition for the 60th anniversary.

 

[Allochronian]

Black Soldiers of the Great Wars

U.S. West Philly Warriors, ca. 1917

U.S. Boston Berzerkers, ca. 1943

Confederate Black soldiers, 1917

Private Arthur Roberts, Black British soldier of Scotland (1897-1982)

Black French soldiers during the First Great War

Black German soldier during the First Great War

Colonial African German soldier art

Sources:
https://blackpresence.co.uk/remembrance-day-black-asian-soldiers-in-ww1/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugene_Bullard
https://blackpresence.co.uk/good-man-scotlands-black-tommy/
https://www.harlemworldmagazine.com/harlem-hellfighters-marching-on-fifth-avenue-1919/
http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/imperial-germany-austro-hungary/imperial-german-eagle-29133/

 

[Zoidberg12]

Awesome pictures! I assume that the Boston Berzerkers are this world's analog to the Tuskegee Airmen?

 

[Allochronian]

Awesome pictures! I assume that the Boston Berzerkers are this world's analog to the Tuskegee Airmen?

Yes.

Sorry if the name sounds a bit weird.

 

[Allochronian]

Black Americans wearing coalscuttle helmets

*These were difficult to find...

 

[Zoidberg12]

Yes.

Sorry if the name sounds a bit weird.

I actually really like the name.

Also, I recognize the above pictures as IOTL soldiers of the army of the Dominican Republic during the 1950s.

 

[Historyman 14]

Black Soldiers of the Great Wars

U.S. Harlem Hellfighters, ca. 1917

I love all of these, but one nitpick.

I don't think you have Harlem Hellfighters, but the Boston Hellfighters, or Beacon Hill. (Boston becomes/stays the epicenter of Black life in the United States. Harlem only began getting Black residents during the Great Migration in the 1910s and that won't happen with the CS-US rivalry.) Same for Massachusetts being the home of Free Blacks and home of the forefathers of African Americans with Pennsylvania.

 

[Allochronian]

I love all of these, but one nitpick.

I don't think you have Harlem Hellfighters, but the Boston Hellfighters, or Beacon Hill. (Boston becomes/stays the epicenter of Black life in the United States. Harlem only began getting Black residents during the Great Migration in the 1910s and that won't happen with the CS-US rivalry.) Same for Massachusetts being the home of Free Blacks and home of the forefathers of African Americans with Pennsylvania.

My mistake.

I could change it to "West Philly Warriors". Philadelphia has always had a stable of population of Blacks even before the War of Secession.

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/part3/3narr1.html