Discussion in 'Alternate History Books and Media' started by Alternatehistoryguy47, Feb 23, 2011.
Well shit! That's new! One way to have Star Trek fit into this universe.
Thank you. I was going to make Nichelle Nichols the Doc, but @Joshua Ben Ari said her role as comms. officer works perfectly - the first voice that any alien race or ship hears is the voice of a Black woman.
He also gave me the idea of Sidney Poitier as Spock.
When the producers of TNG were looking at who to play Picard, they looked at Poitier and even Yaphet Kotto (Parker from Alien). So it made sense to push equality in a very real and in-your-face way.
Any chance that the Wright brothers had cooperated with Otto Lilienthal in designing the first airplanes?
The Wright Brothers were big fans of Lilienthal and stated on several occasions that he was the man who taught them how to fly (referring to his written works on his experiments with gliding and designing gliders). The Wright Brothers took up gliding and designed gliders influenced by Lienthal's work, if Lienthal's death is butterflied in TL-191, its possible the Wright Brothers might have traveled to Germany to study or just to pay their respects.
Anything would be possible.
Messerschmitt 262 turbo-engined fighter of the Luftstreitskrafte. The Me262 was the first turbo-engined warplane to enter regular service, being employed by the German Empire against British bombing raids during the last stages of the Second Great War. Lacking turbos of their own, British bombers - already spread thin as the tide of war turned against Britain - suffered heavy casualties against 262s. This particular model was flown by air ace Adolf Ritter von Galland, and still flies to this day.
Georg Friedrich Ferdinand, Prinz von Preußen, son of current Kaiser Louis Ferdinand II and heir to the German Empire. Popular with the youth of Germany, the Prince nevertheless caused a minor amount of consternation among more conservative Junkers with his marriage to Princess Sophie Johanna Maria of Isenburg, a Catholic.
Jaguar 2 Main Battle Barrel of the German Army on manoeuvres in Pomerania. The Jaguar is one of the better barrels in the world, commanding ready sales among Germany's allies as well as being the mainstay of the Heer.
Unter den Linden, Berlin, capital of the German Empire. Though battered by Entente bombing raids during the Second Great War, Berlin rebuilt quickly after the end of the war.
Despite economic difficulties after the war, and the relinquishing of a number of colonial territories, Germany remains the primary military and economic power of Europe, and has effectively united the Continent behind it, and Berlin is the beating heart of Germany's empire.
Map of Missouri in TL-191
Missouri before the First Great War
Missouri after the First Great War
Maps of Southwestern USA in TL-191
A More Accurate Version of Southwestern USA in TL-191 Before the FGW
A Speculative, but Accurate Version of Southwestern USA in TL-191 after the FGW
Screenshots form the Twilight Zone episode He's Alive. The episode tells the story of a Neo-Confederate trying to incite a revolution in the former Confederacy, with the ghost of Jake Featherston, at first becoming his mentor and then his master. This episode was a pet project of Second Great War veteran, Rod Serling, who wanted to write a story about how the evil represented by Featherston didn't end with his death.
A tomato is thrown at the main character, Peter Connor, during a speech in the beginning of the episode.
Jake Featherston's ghost applauds his apprentice after a rally.
Very nice. This was actually one of my favorite Twilight Zone episodes, and for the exact same reason that you posted. I also liked where the Neo-Nazi was living with a German survivor from WWII, who gave us the POV of how the people never really believed that the crazies would take power until it was too late.
The Future of Russian America in TL-191
After the end of the Second Great War in 1944, the Russian colony of "Russian America" faced an uncertain future. Most of the Russian Far East was now under Japanese control and the colony was cut off from Petrograd. The population was mostly made up of indigenous people and Russian colonists. The latter was generally divided into two groups: Exiled Communists and Loyalists to the Romanov family. Despite the mutual hatred both groups had for each other, they had one common enemy: the Japanese Empire.
After the Russian Empire dissolved and transformed into the Russian Republic, the Imperial family, loyal government agents, and Russian refugees from the Second Great War poured into Russian America. In 1945, the "State of Alaska" was proclaimed under the control of the Romanov family, much to the chargin of the Russians who were Socialists and Communists. To avoid a civil war, the leader of Alaska severely limited the role of the Czar and sought support from the USA, adopting an Anti-Japanese policy and a mutual cooperation between their nations. The USA initially had plans to eventually conquer Russian America, but the government decided that it was easier to have an ally than to spend more valuable resources. During the Second Great Game/Frozen Conflict/Triple Tension, Alaska was vital for intelligence operations.
After the collapse of the Japanese Empire, the Alaskan government and Russian government were able to meet together for the first time and celebrate their common heritage while being committed to peace on Earth. However, without a common enemy, there was concern if Socialists and Communists would begin to fight against Loyalists and Pure Democracy-lovers just as the 20th Century was almost over...
Map of the Nation-State of Alaska
Flag of the Nation-State of Alaska
1) The term "Frozen Conflict" has a slightly different meaning in TL-191; it's basically a synonym for "Cold War"
2) The flag is a combination the Flag of the Russian American Company and the Romanov-Russian Flag upside down.
Captain Race Cunningham, main protagonist of the 1960's cult classic Star Voyage a joint German-American production. Originally created by American writer and producer Michelle "Mitch" Roddenberry was the Science Adventure setting of it's time. Following Race Cunningham and the crew of the Phoenix as they explore strange new worlds and defend the outer colonies of the Interstellar Alliance against its various enemies. Roddenberry termed it as a classic western in space, drawing heavily from German Expressionism and such films as metropolis, alongside classic American Planetary Romance's and pulp science fiction.
The Starmen mysterious and enigmatic beings of pure light, the franchises greatest foes of unkown origin. Much of their motivations and origins would remain a mystery even into the 90's series Star Voyages: the Second Generation. Amongst the series other enemies included the Terra Novan's Eugenically breed supermen who broke away from Earth during the founding days of the Alliance, forging their own empire amongst the stars. Obviously based off of the Confederacy and Anglo-French the Terra Novan's possessed a Japanese-Indian-Arabic inspired culture, maintaining a strict caste system and code of honor, with the majority of the actors who portrayed them being from East Asia and latin America.
From top to bottom Dr. Von Topenkopf and General Khan two of the greatest villains of Star Voyage. Dr. Topenkopf a former legendary Alliance scientist turned conqueror following a teleportation experiment gone wrong, becoming a beloved if hammy recurring foe and occasional ally ASS Phoenix and General Khan one of the original founders of the Terra Novan Empire. Dr. Von Topenkopf would make several appearances throughout the five seasons the original series with his legacy still being felt into the Second Generation in the form of the Topenkopf Dominion and his various science experiments, making his final appearance in the two part Frontier Base Alpha episode Legend's End in off screen last stand against the Technocracy. While General Khan only had a single episode in the original series, managed to distinguish himself as a man of culture and refinement, alongside being a father to his men and being an overall charismatic and inspiring leader, making his final appearance in Star Voyage: Khan's Vengeance.
That chunk taken out of Arkansas always made me laugh. Just a straight line on down, as if the United States took a literal slice of the Arkansas cake.
Well, that's an interesting idea for sure! It would neither be a US state, nor a Japanese territory, nor a British territory post-war. Given its position, it would possibly become its own country, perhaps even a kind of buffer state.
Any ideas on what the timeline 191 equivalent of John Carter of Mars would be like?
i'd guess that it'd be exactly the same except that Carter would probably be a Northerner instead--as much as people raised a stink over Carter being ex-Confederate when the movie came out, it has no real standing on the story in the film or the books (at least from what i've read--the only one i've read so far is A Princess of Mars). on a larger scale, Burroughs would probably drop the Southerner aspect of his fictionalized version of himself for nationalist reasons.
Probably something about John Carter being descended from German nobility or the like, along with his enemies being vague fill ins for the Entente and the Red Martians having a slight Prussian vibe going on.
I've read A Princess of Mars as well, watched the movie too. In all honesty, since the books take place on a planet where sword, science fiction, and adventure are more prevalent than anything, where John Carter comes from hardly affects him on an alien world.
He may actually be a northerner in this version in TL-191. Since the United States lost the war, Carter could have been an ex-soldier going out west to try to strike his fortune somewhere in New Mexico, as opposed to him being an ex-Confederate in OTL. He may make references to his old life on Earth as a soldier in the US Army and may call back to his experience fighting Confederates in, say, Kentucky during the Second Mexican War, but other than that the stories would play out just the same.
U.S. General Hanson E. Ely: Born in Independence, Iowa in 1867, General Ely was instilled from an early age with two things that would shape his life: love of history and love of a country. It would be these two principles that would push him to apply for seat at the United States Military Academy at West Point; he would be accepted in 1891. The 1890's were a time of rapid change for the United States. The Prussian reforms adopted by the U.S. following its defeat in the Second Mexican-American War were beginning to bear fruit. The U.S. Army was leading the way in this regard with its nearly increased size and fire power. Still, for some, it wasn't quite enough. Some U.S. Army officials recognized that numbers and weapons alone wouldn't win wars. Future wars would be decided with bold action and innovation. From his study of history, and the interactions of several of his professors at West Point, General Ely became an ardent student of this line of thinking. The history of warfare had shown that numbers alone do not decide the outcome; the victory of the Confederacy in the previous two wars clearly demonstrated that. Upon his graduation, General Ely would distinguish himself in various positions from the company to division levels; including being selected as the U.S. military liaison to the German Army maneuvers in 1906.
At the outbreak of the war in 1914, General Ely was the commander of the U.S. 7th Army in Kansas. His mission was to advance into Sequoyah and potentially force the Confederacy to divert troops from the Eastern Theater to defend Texas. Although the 7th Army was no bigger than a standard U.S. sized Corps, it was still far larger than the division sized Confederate Army of the Plains. An additional advantage of the 7th Army was the acquisition of 50 armored cars. General Ely, at a prewar conference in Philadelphia, had requested the cars when no other commander was interested in them. He quickly grasped that the cars, while not much faster than horse cavalry, could provide him the innovative and shock value that he needed to achieve this objective. Organizing the armored cars into two battalions of 25, he would effectively use them to outrun and mow down Confederate forces which would allow the infantry to advance. At battles such as Bartlesville, Enid, and Stillwater, the Army of the Plains would be soundly defeated and forced to fall back, or risk being annihilated. By Spring, 1915 most of Sequoyah would be under U.S. control. General Ely would wire back to the War Department that if two more divisions and 50 more armored cars could be made available, then he could strike south in Texas and potentially cutoff the panhandle. The War Department, dealing with the Confederate advance on Philadelphia, not only did not provide the requested reinforcements but withdrew one division and 30 armored cars from the 7th Army to bolster the U.S. offensive out of Baltimore. General Ely would be named military governor of Sequoyah, while remaining the commander of the much reduced 7th Army.
General Ely would be transferred to the U.S. 1st Army in December 1916 as the Operations Officer. It was here that he would mentor a young Lieutenant Colonel Irving Morrell and develop the first doctrine for armored warfare. During the Barrel Roll offensive in 1917, he was given command of all 1st Army’s barrels. For his part in the success of the offensive, General Ely was awarded the Distinguished Service Cross. Following the war, the War Department offered General Ely command of the Barrell Works in Kansas. General Ely, recognizing his age, declined the appointment but recommended Colonel Morrel to Army Chief of Staff Leonard Wood. General Ely would serve as commander of U.S. forces in Kentucky before retiring in 1920. In a post-GWII interview, then General Morrell would be quoted as saying: “When it came to armored warfare, General Ely understood it from the get-go. Any compendium on subject should start with his name.”
Would there be any chance for HP Lovecraft to have fought in the First Great War or would he be to old. Since I'm getting the image of the Cthulhu Mythos being influenced by his experiences fighting in the trenches.
Sounds about right...
There might be other minor changes but at the end of the day it would still be pretty much a different version of the same thing.
Separate names with a comma.