Philip II of Spain dies in 1561

In 1556 the Carlos I abdicates in favour of his two sons Ferdinand I and Phillip II who keeps the Spanish lands. Now with Phillip II gone 5 years later and a legitimate issue of Carlos II why any German or Austrian get the Spanish throne?

It's a bit of nitpick, but king and later emperor Ferdinand I was the brother of emperor Charles V (king Carlos I). :)

Well the Austrian would inherit if TTL Carlos II dies without a heir. Since Charles V only had one son Philip II and ITTL Philip II dies only leaving one son, this will make the children of the eldest daughter of Charles V and thus a sister of Philip II, Mary, his heirs (although in some parts Mary herself could also inherit).
 
In 1556 the Carlos I abdicates in favour of his two sons Ferdinand I and Phillip II who keeps the Spanish lands. Now with Phillip II gone 5 years later and a legitimate issue of Carlos II why any German or Austrian get the Spanish throne?

Well, we are assuming that this "Charles II" just as the later Charles II was infertile. And if he marries (probably to a Habsburg too) and have a child I can only shudder thinking about how his even more inbreed baby would be.
 

Lusitania

Donor
It's a bit of nitpick, but Ferdinand I was the brother of emperor Charles V (king Carlos I). :)

yes I know but Carlos II is made eitheir outright king since he is 16 or a regent is appointed but he would become King not any uncle.

On the other hand if the uncle(s) were to petition the Pope to declre Carlos II unfit to rule, it happened all the time then we have it opened to speculation wowho would succeed Carlos II but he would succeed his father I am sure.
 
yes I know but Carlos II is made eitheir outright king since he is 16 or a regent is appointed but he would become King not any uncle.

On the other hand if the uncle(s) were to petition the Pope to declre Carlos II unfit to rule, it happened all the time then we have it opened to speculation wowho would succeed Carlos II but he would succeed his father I am sure.

Not any uncle, but as long as Carlos II doesn't have a son, one of his cousins (from the marriage of Maximilian II and Mary (see my two earlier posts :)) will eventually inherit as his heir.
 
With Philip II gone in 1561, the Dutch revolt might be less intense, but there still would be religious turmoil.
It depends on how the Spanish react to the Dutch demands of more Autonomy, less taxes and the acceptance of protestantism/calvinism. If the Spanish continue their policies I suspect a Dutch revolt will still occur.
 

Valdemar II

Banned
It depends on how the Spanish react to the Dutch demands of more Autonomy, less taxes and the acceptance of protestantism/calvinism. If the Spanish continue their policies I suspect a Dutch revolt will still occur.

How much of it depended on Philip II and how much on the Spanish adminstration. If Philip was the primary force behind it, I imagine that the Spanish will back a little off, if it was the Spanish adminstration it depend on how much Chaos Don Carlos make in the Spanish government.
 
It depends on how the Spanish react to the Dutch demands of more Autonomy, less taxes and the acceptance of protestantism/calvinism. If the Spanish continue their policies I suspect a Dutch revolt will still occur.

Their policies might change with regard to demands for autonomy and taxes, but accepting protestantism will be much harder. OTOH if it ''only'' turns into a religious conflict, then the rebellion IMO will (initially) be smaller; since the political elements are less there, because accepting (some) demands regarding autonomy and taxes would (initially) appease the moderates.

How much of it depended on Philip II and how much on the Spanish adminstration. If Philip was the primary force behind it, I imagine that the Spanish will back a little off, if it was the Spanish adminstration it depend on how much Chaos Don Carlos make in the Spanish government.

In the early stages of the revolt ('started' in 1578), it mainly was against the policies and advisors etc. of Philip II, but the all accepted Philip II as their Sovereign Lord; that position towards Philip II changed with act of abjuration in 1581.
 
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Valdemar II

Banned
In the early stages of the revolt ('started' in 1578), it mainly was against the policies and advisors etc. of Philip II, but the all accepted Philip II as their Sovereign Lord; that position towards Philip II changed with act of abjuration in 1581.


It was not so much whom the rebelled against as whom was behind the policies, which alienated the Dutch.

My guess are that Don Carlos are going to be such a nightmare for the Spanish adminstration, that they put their policies to centralise power in the Netherlands on the backburner, and go after a Counter-Reformation solution in the Netherlands. Which keep the Dutch from rebel, the problem are that the incredible high urbanisation of the Netherlands and the general freedom and wealth, make it perfect territorium for Calvinism.
 
Their policies might change with regard to demands for autonomy and taxes, but accepting protestantism will be much harder. OTOH if it ''only'' turns into a religious conflict, then the rebellion IMO will (initially) be smaller; since the political elements are less there, because accepting (some) demands regarding autonomy and taxes would (initially) appease the moderates.

It was not so much whom the rebelled against as whom was behind the policies, which alienated the Dutch.

My guess are that Don Carlos are going to be such a nightmare for the Spanish adminstration, that they put their policies to centralise power in the Netherlands on the backburner, and go after a Counter-Reformation solution in the Netherlands. Which keep the Dutch from rebel, the problem are that the incredible high urbanisation of the Netherlands and the general freedom and wealth, make it perfect territorium for Calvinism.

But wouldn't the religious conflict soon turn into a political one? I mean, it would create a huge presence of Spanish troops there, and eventually their maintanance would demand a more centralized administration of taxes.
 
But wouldn't the religious conflict soon turn into a political one? I mean, it would create a huge presence of Spanish troops there, and eventually their maintanance would demand a more centralized administration of taxes.

It depends, one of the demands was that the regional and ''national''(from the Low Countries) authorities and nobility would be more responsible for the administration of these areas. Any good campaign will try to use local authorities and military strength, furthermore there will always be some military strength present with France and in a way also England as neighbors. Paying them is a burden, but not paying them could lead to plundering and 'furies'. So an increase of a military presence will increase unrest, but the level of increase would depend on the level of self-governing.

Another threat would be the effect of the religious conflicts in the Holy Roman Empire and France.
 

Valdemar II

Banned
But wouldn't the religious conflict soon turn into a political one? I mean, it would create a huge presence of Spanish troops there, and eventually their maintanance would demand a more centralized administration of taxes.

No I think the change are going to b e mostly that people are punish if they openly show they are Calvinist, while they are left lone in the medium term if they stay silent. This was a common policy toward Calvinist and made them keep silent. At the same time the Counter-Reformation reform the Catholic Church and get rid of the worst offenses (like most Dutch Catholic priest having mistresses). While unlikely to get rid of the Calvinist it keep them from rebelling, which are what the Spanish need while dealing with a difficult king. This leave Rudolf to deal with it when Don Carlos dies.

Beside that for another husband for Anna of Austria it Don Carlos would be a likely option, any children are unlikely to survive or being born.
 
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