Philip I/III of England and Spain

so what if Mary I's First phantom pregnancies wasn't a phantom pregnancy but real, and in 1555 she gave birth to a healthy baby boy named Philip, so what happens when Mary dies? (around the same time as OTL)
 
Wasn't her pregenancy actually a tumor of some kind and that was what killed her. So if it really is a child, then wouldn't she likely survive longer?
 
Ok so assuming it was pseudocyesis, I can't imagine Philip I (of England), would inheirate the Spanish Throne. It seems more likely that Philip II would name a seperate Spanish Heir (perhaps Elizabeth of Valois does not miscarry with her 4 pregnancy).

In anycase, this means that England would have a decidedly Catholic Monarch, supported by a decidedly Catholic Superpower. Oh the poor Anglicans/Dutch/German Lutherans.
 
Remember that Philip II already had a son at the time he married Mary: Carlos, prince of Asturias. He had a bad health and was mentally ill, but until then he was still the heir of Spain. IIRC if Philip and Mary had a son he would grant him the Netherlands, and let Spain, Naples and Milan to Carlos.
Now, ITTL as Philip has a second heir he doesn't need to marry Elisabeth of Valois to ensure his succession (as he didn't know if Carlos would survive) and could let his son marry her. If despite his condition Carlos could sire children (that's a big if though) then we would see the formation of two more Habsburg branches, one in Spain and the other in England-Burgundy.
 
Wasn't her pregenancy actually a tumor of some kind and that was what killed her. So if it really is a child, then wouldn't she likely survive longer?
My teacher told me it was a massive stomach tumor, which basically caused me to squick and curl into the fetal position.

But if it was a tumor, the POD could simply be that Mary does not have a tumor... problem solved.
 
Philip

I can't see Mary surviving until her son comes of age. She was always in rather frail health. I see problems with the regency. She would probably arrange for a Roman Catholic to head it, but I still see Protestant possibilities. And what happens with Elizabeth? Does she have a voice in the regency?
 
I can't see Mary surviving until her son comes of age. She was always in rather frail health. I see problems with the regency. She would probably arrange for a Roman Catholic to head it, but I still see Protestant possibilities. And what happens with Elizabeth? Does she have a voice in the regency?

It would be nice if Philip becomes influenced by the Protestants while he grows up. The son of Philip II, possible heir of Catholic Spain, a heretic reformed.
 
I have to imagine, if it were to come to having the possibility of a Protestant take the Spanish throne, the Spanish would find some way to remove him.
 
I have to imagine, if it were to come to having the possibility of a Protestant take the Spanish throne, the Spanish would find some way to remove him.

I think Philip II would still marry again, even if Mary gives him a son. So, if the English Philip is removed from the Spanish succession there would be no trouble to accept another king. However, things become interesting ITTL when the Netherlands revolt, as now the Calvinists there can say that their legitimate ruler is the king of Spain's heir, the Protestant king of England, Philip I.
 
An Anglo-Burgundian Union under a Protestant Habsburg...
Jesus Christ, is that a thing of beauty.

I think this does beg the question though, the Habsburgs are noted for two things, their belief in their positions as defenders of the Catholic Church, and their staunch family alliance over all else. So what happens if these things are forced into conflict, that is to say, would the Spanish/Austrian Habsburgs alienate a Protestant line or tone down their uber Catholicism rheotoric?
 
An Anglo-Burgundian Union under a Protestant Habsburg...
Jesus Christ, is that a thing of beauty.
In my book, it's called heresy of the highest order! :mad:

Awesome heresy of the highest order, of course, much like LTTW's French Revolutionary flag. But still...

I think this does beg the question though, the Habsburgs are noted for two things, their belief in their positions as defenders of the Catholic Church, and their staunch family alliance over all else. So what happens if these things are forced into conflict, that is to say, would the Spanish/Austrian Habsburgs alienate a Protestant line or tone down their uber Catholicism rheotoric?
I think a lot depends on the circumstances and what England does in the immediate aftermath, and how our descendant handles things...

One wonders- the Spanish Hapsburgs were fanatics, after all. I mean, someone like Phillip II is most likely to put religion in front of family... But I think individual personalities are important here- but we're dealing with a lot of theoretical people.
 
In my book, it's called heresy of the highest order! :mad:

Awesome heresy of the highest order, of course, much like LTTW's French Revolutionary flag. But still...


I think a lot depends on the circumstances and what England does in the immediate aftermath, and how our descendant handles things...

One wonders- the Spanish Hapsburgs were fanatics, after all. I mean, someone like Phillip II is most likely to put religion in front of family... But I think individual personalities are important here- but we're dealing with a lot of theoretical people.
See I dunno if he would. I will agree he was an incredibly religious man, but I can't help returning to the thought that in the end that Habsburgs did what was best for the family are large, except for Charles II of Spain, but he was a genetic mutant freak so he doesn't count. Plus this is his son...
 
Isn't Madrid worth a mass?

I have to agree. We are taling about the possibility of Philip of Spain to be a fanatic and act againts his son over religion-the fanaticism would be to refuse the frikkin´ Spanish Empire over religion.

He probably would be far more friendly to the Protestant cause -which is bad fo the long-term survival of the Inquisition, which by that time alreday was gaining far too much power over the crown. But friendly or not, he'd be a catholic -and right now a fair percentage of England are secret catholics, too; Henry VIII isnt' too far on the past.

But I don't know if he'd be able to keep Protestant England on the long term (what happened in the Netherlands). I could see a separation, Netherlands and England to the protestants (and a future british empire over both sinçdes of the channel is way awesome, though France may think otherwise...) and Ireland to remain Spanish.
 
I have to agree. We are taling about the possibility of Philip of Spain to be a fanatic and act againts his son over religion-the fanaticism would be to refuse the frikkin´ Spanish Empire over religion.

He probably would be far more friendly to the Protestant cause -which is bad fo the long-term survival of the Inquisition, which by that time alreday was gaining far too much power over the crown. But friendly or not, he'd be a catholic -and right now a fair percentage of England are secret catholics, too; Henry VIII isnt' too far on the past.

But I don't know if he'd be able to keep Protestant England on the long term (what happened in the Netherlands). I could see a separation, Netherlands and England to the protestants (and a future british empire over both sinçdes of the channel is way awesome, though France may think otherwise...) and Ireland to remain Spanish.


That would be a really interesting TL. England would be more powerful, but stuck to european affairs could not rely only in their navy to keep safe. Spain will lose the rich flemish territories, but will avoid an endless war there and probably get Ireland. France will have to face England in the north and Spain in the South and both in Hapsburgh hands...
 
Ireland that isn't supressed and dominated, and further is allowed to openly be Catholic, and eventually may be under and independent Habsburg King...

*drools*
 
Ireland that isn't supressed and dominated, and further is allowed to openly be Catholic, and eventually may be under and independent Habsburg King...

*drools*
But if that king wants to have any power, he is going to have to suppress the barons and petty kings and dominate the Anglo-Irish lords.
 
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