By the way, who plays the Master in the Six Doctors? Is it still Richfield, or has the character regenerated?
"Phil won't leave his room" - A Doctor Who Production History
- Thread starter Guajolote
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Cool. By the way, what are the stories that serve as Cuthbertson, Henderson and Baker's debut adventures?
Additionally, does the BBC maintain the 60s logo for the entire corporation, or is it just used for the DVD releases?
Story specifics are something I sketch in, because plot breakdowns are the thing that interest me least about TV timelines. I had a breakdown of The Six Doctors because that story couldn't play out the way it did IOTL because there's not enough Time Lord backstory for it to play out like it The Five Doctors.
Here are the vague ideas in the TL, but they can be dropped if they clash with any other part of the TL. Cuthbertson debuted with Genesis Of The Daleks. Henderson with a version of State Of Decay called The Wasting (the Louis Jourdan Dracula happens ITTL as it does IOTL, thus disrupting any earlier appearance of a vampire story in Doctor Who). I don't have specifics in mind for Baker's debut, but it's called The Time Centre.
The BBC logo is a bit of frippery but yes, it's across the Corporation.
Here are the vague ideas in the TL, but they can be dropped if they clash with any other part of the TL. Cuthbertson debuted with Genesis Of The Daleks. Henderson with a version of State Of Decay called The Wasting (the Louis Jourdan Dracula happens ITTL as it does IOTL, thus disrupting any earlier appearance of a vampire story in Doctor Who). I don't have specifics in mind for Baker's debut, but it's called The Time Centre.
The BBC logo is a bit of frippery but yes, it's across the Corporation.
Is it an American actor you've mentioned on twitter? A star of Broadway?
If it is, he's AFAIK quite a PBS face.
To save the series, PBS and BBC enlist in a coproduction.
Let it take as long as it takes. Or just try writing something else to get the creative juices flowing again (mind you I did that with my Doctor timeline and still haven't got back to it
)
)
Hey, you don't owe us anything. You're providing this as essentially free entertainment and a thought experiment. Take your time and get the care and treatment you need and deserve. We'll be here.
Should I put Part 17 up now or would you rather it was spaced out a bit so the wait for part 18 didn't feel as long?
One of these days Fandom AH should have some AH-exclusive Doctors meet each other.
mind you I did that with my Doctor timeline and still haven't got back to it
One of these days Fandom AH should have some AH-exclusive Doctors meet each other.
Don't tempt me, man. Coming up with Doctor Who stories is one of my favorite pastimes.
Hmm. Good question. Is there any other reason we shouldn't go for instant gratification this time?
Take however much time is necessary, mate. Look after yourself first, we'll be patient.
If you feel comfortable putting the part up now then go for it! I'd say it makes the wait for part 18 more enticing. But if you feel like you would have to rush it then don't.
Part 17
"Why do The Four Doctors? I have heard the criticisms and I think it misses the point a little.
"Trying to win a new audience and looking at the Doctor's past aren't mutually exclusive. If you're telling someone who's never heard of Doctor Who what's unique about it, one of the big things is that the lead role can be played by different actors in completely different ways. Not only that, they can meet each other. You can't have a James Bond film where Sean Connery's Bond has to go on a mission with Roger Moore's Bond. But you can do the Doctor Who equivalent. So that's what I thought The Four Doctors would do for newcomers, teach them about a special aspect of the lead character.
"When they did the pilot for the US series, people over here wondered why the first five minutes is Tony running about the place. But the fact the character can change bodies is one of the best bits. No wonder they wanted to tell the audience about it as soon as they can.
"That wasn't the reason we did the story, it was just the reason I saw it as a good idea. The reason it happened was that Pat Troughton had enjoyed doing The Six Doctors and asked if it was possible to do another story. I told him I'd be delighted and he went and told Roger Delgado, they were great mates. So then Roger calls and said if old Doctors can just ring up and ask, he'd like to come onboard. No sooner had I said yes, Roger added that Iain was mostly recovered from his stroke, so it was only fair to invite him along to have a bit more time in the spotlight. That's how we ended up with four Doctors."
- Colin Cant, convention appearance, 1997
"I was meant to be acting script-editor after Andrew Davies left, but in the end I overlapped with his replacement. Colin, Colin Brake, the new Colin, this gets confusing. Colin Cant had committed to having some previous Doctors appear in the show and he wanted it to be a thread running through several episodes of the series. Colin Brake was not a total newcomer, but Colin Cant thought it was a bit of a heavy brief to put on a recent recruit. All very smooth sailing actually, the main thing to come out of it was the new Production office slang. Colin Cant became referred to as 'CC', Colin Brake was 'CB' and Colin Baker became 'DB' or Doctor Baker."
- Ted Rhodes, DVD Extra, A Face From The Past
"The production office tended to just refer to me as The Doctor after a while. Quite how got through that series without an identity crisis, I do not know. That's before we get to the old Doctors turning up.
"There was a reluctance to just refer to us by surname, because Baker and Brake are anagrams of each other. Just one typing error and we'd all be terribly confused."
- Colin Baker, DVD Extra, A Face From The Past
"Because it was all my idea, I get to spend more time onscreen than the other Doctors. I'll be in the first story of the new series, which will explain to any new viewers that The Doctor used to have different bodies. Then I'll come back at the end and have an adventure with Colin and Roger and Iain. Roger and I will have to stand on stepladders for the shoot because Iain's about 20 feet tall. I don't now how he doesn't get faint up there. He must be always picking satellites and low-flying aircraft out of his hair."
- Patrick Troughton, Press release, A Face From The Past
"Sorry, you had a question. How was working with David Dimbleby? You love office politics don't you? So, yes, David became BBC1 controller after Alan Hart. The industry press were certain that Michael Grade was going to get the job, but I think Paul Fox let it be known he didn't smile on that idea. Is this in-depth enough for you? I suppose you know about the spat between LWT on one-side and Granada and Yorkshire Television on the other. And was head of YTV at that time? Paul Fox. Even though it was ultimately up to the BBC Board of Governors, Paul's opinion didn't help.
"David was a BBC institution and the son of a BBC institution. [1] I was the producer of a BBC institution and I felt pretty safe. If David was going to make waves, it would be more likely to be in Current Affairs, which was where he was from.
"Usually, as a producer you have several heads of several departments between you and the head of the channel, but there are occasional chances to get some face to face time. After Season 21 had ended, David called me in for a meeting. Jonathan Powell, the Head of Drama was there but he didn't say much. It wasn't long before he left to form his own company. I don't think he quite saw eye-to-eye with David. As much as David was a well-educated high-flyer, he didn't mind a touch of populism and I think Powell didn't care for that side of things. Anyway, David said 'What do you think Doctor Who will be like in three years' time?'. I had to confess, I didn't really intend still being Doctor Who producer in three years' time, but I saw no reason it shouldn't continue as long it was still able to change and grow like it had been doing for 20-odd years.
"I was about half-convinced he was going to cancel it. But he said 'Keep up the good work. We'll be getting an offer from you for a 23rd season, yes?' and that was it. I put my offer in a while later and we got our renewal. But I think that shows he already had something in mind for Doctor Who."
- Colin Cant, convention appearance, 1997
"Even as fandom became more of a thing, Doctor Who kept its distance from its fans. You could hold a cult TV convention and Jon Pertwee would be there in his Gabriel Baine costume, playing up for the crowd. But you wouldn't have any of the Doctors there. Don was always busy working. Iain's health made him unwilling to take part. Roger became a stalwart of the convention scene in the 90s, but in the 80s he would more likely send a lovely video message. His genuine love of the programme was obvious, but the video would be of him on a film set, with a completely unintentional subtext that he'd really graduated from Doctor Who. Wherever he was, it did rather seem that anyone would rather be there than in a Novotel near Leeds answering questions about Daleks.
"Colin Baker changed things in the 80s because he loved making appearances and making them in costume. He took the offscreen part of being The Doctor by the scruff of the neck and shook it up.
"Home video also changed the show's standing. I think there was quite a shock when the sales figures came in for the first Doctor Who videotape, Genesis Of The Daleks. Subsequent releases sold similarly well. BBC Enterprises was always aware of the potential of Doctor Who because it was such a steady seller to stations overseas, but home video pitched it to a whole new level. Colin started appearing at conventions worldwide and for a while, he really seemed to be THE Doctor."
- Andrew Barbicane, DVD Extra, Catacombs Of Terror
__________________
"I'd had this seven-year plan for Doctor Who. I was going to be The Doctor even longer than Iain and gradually peel away the layers of the Doctor's character. But after two series, I'd done 26 fifty-minute episodes and Colin Cant had encouraged me to be lovable old Sixie right out of the gate. Don had been sinister, they wanted me to be bumptious and arrogant in a fun sort of way.
"I once did an appearance on All Creatures Great And Small and the producer, John Nathan-Turner great character [2], said my Doctor was 'just like Danny La Rue'. [3] I found that a little surprising, I might not be dead butch, but I thought I was a little more macho than Danny La Rue, but John said 'He's the greatest and he knows he's the greatest and he loves to talk about how great he is, but everyone loves him. He's not mean or arrogant. He's a big head, but he's also a big heart'. Of course, The Doctor has two big hearts, but I think that's a fair description of Sixie.
"There was one story where I got to show the dark side of the character, The Fear Factory. There was a scene where we find out the Doctor has a fear of being alone. As The Doctor wandered around the empty sets, thinking he was the only person left there, maybe the only person left in the universe, I dialed down the smiles until I was playing it very, very still. I really enjoyed that. Someone else had been watching and that performance led to me getting my next role after Doctor Who. But that's another story.
"So, I was entering my third series, maybe thinking I had taken the role as far as I could, but looking forward to working with a new companion to work out a different relationship with."
- Colin Baker, DVD Extra, The Sontaron Mutation
"Having spoken to other Doctor Who script editors, I believe it was an idea that came up every time they were devising a new companion. I think the make fun of me a little for being the one who went with it. But 'Artful Dodger-type in space', what's not to like?
"Rebecca Lacey brought Zerreck to life wonderfully. We were careful to make clear that her constant thieving was a matter of fending off starvation. It would be easy for a character who's always looking to steal things to lose the audiences sympathy.
"Every time a new companion is unveiled to the press, there's the usual chat from the journalists about whether she'll be a 'screamer' like all the others. It's reductive and unfair to all the hard work done by previous production teams. None of them have just been screamers, they've all been well drawn.
"But we were faced with the issue of making sure we had a companion who was interesting. Sophie had been a very subtly characterized companion, I suppose we felt entitled to be unsubtle. So we turned the Doctor-Companion relationship on its head. Zerreck goes looking for trouble and while she tries to the right thing, her idea of the right thing and the Doctor's don't always line up. Robert Holmes loved the character and his last work for the series contains some of his best lines.
"After all that, we only got to have her for one series."
- Colin Brake, DVD Extra, The Sontaron Mutation
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Dimbleby
[2] The 1985 Christmas special fits the timeline in terms of an All Creatures episode in production while Colin is also the Doctor and has had enough episodes to make an impression.
[3] Female impersonator and showbiz giant
Next time: a cancellation crisis and 18 months is too long to wait. It's the same, only different.
"Trying to win a new audience and looking at the Doctor's past aren't mutually exclusive. If you're telling someone who's never heard of Doctor Who what's unique about it, one of the big things is that the lead role can be played by different actors in completely different ways. Not only that, they can meet each other. You can't have a James Bond film where Sean Connery's Bond has to go on a mission with Roger Moore's Bond. But you can do the Doctor Who equivalent. So that's what I thought The Four Doctors would do for newcomers, teach them about a special aspect of the lead character.
"When they did the pilot for the US series, people over here wondered why the first five minutes is Tony running about the place. But the fact the character can change bodies is one of the best bits. No wonder they wanted to tell the audience about it as soon as they can.
"That wasn't the reason we did the story, it was just the reason I saw it as a good idea. The reason it happened was that Pat Troughton had enjoyed doing The Six Doctors and asked if it was possible to do another story. I told him I'd be delighted and he went and told Roger Delgado, they were great mates. So then Roger calls and said if old Doctors can just ring up and ask, he'd like to come onboard. No sooner had I said yes, Roger added that Iain was mostly recovered from his stroke, so it was only fair to invite him along to have a bit more time in the spotlight. That's how we ended up with four Doctors."
- Colin Cant, convention appearance, 1997
__________________
"I was meant to be acting script-editor after Andrew Davies left, but in the end I overlapped with his replacement. Colin, Colin Brake, the new Colin, this gets confusing. Colin Cant had committed to having some previous Doctors appear in the show and he wanted it to be a thread running through several episodes of the series. Colin Brake was not a total newcomer, but Colin Cant thought it was a bit of a heavy brief to put on a recent recruit. All very smooth sailing actually, the main thing to come out of it was the new Production office slang. Colin Cant became referred to as 'CC', Colin Brake was 'CB' and Colin Baker became 'DB' or Doctor Baker."
- Ted Rhodes, DVD Extra, A Face From The Past
__________________
"The production office tended to just refer to me as The Doctor after a while. Quite how got through that series without an identity crisis, I do not know. That's before we get to the old Doctors turning up.
"There was a reluctance to just refer to us by surname, because Baker and Brake are anagrams of each other. Just one typing error and we'd all be terribly confused."
- Colin Baker, DVD Extra, A Face From The Past
__________________
"Because it was all my idea, I get to spend more time onscreen than the other Doctors. I'll be in the first story of the new series, which will explain to any new viewers that The Doctor used to have different bodies. Then I'll come back at the end and have an adventure with Colin and Roger and Iain. Roger and I will have to stand on stepladders for the shoot because Iain's about 20 feet tall. I don't now how he doesn't get faint up there. He must be always picking satellites and low-flying aircraft out of his hair."
- Patrick Troughton, Press release, A Face From The Past
__________________
"Sorry, you had a question. How was working with David Dimbleby? You love office politics don't you? So, yes, David became BBC1 controller after Alan Hart. The industry press were certain that Michael Grade was going to get the job, but I think Paul Fox let it be known he didn't smile on that idea. Is this in-depth enough for you? I suppose you know about the spat between LWT on one-side and Granada and Yorkshire Television on the other. And was head of YTV at that time? Paul Fox. Even though it was ultimately up to the BBC Board of Governors, Paul's opinion didn't help.
"David was a BBC institution and the son of a BBC institution. [1] I was the producer of a BBC institution and I felt pretty safe. If David was going to make waves, it would be more likely to be in Current Affairs, which was where he was from.
"Usually, as a producer you have several heads of several departments between you and the head of the channel, but there are occasional chances to get some face to face time. After Season 21 had ended, David called me in for a meeting. Jonathan Powell, the Head of Drama was there but he didn't say much. It wasn't long before he left to form his own company. I don't think he quite saw eye-to-eye with David. As much as David was a well-educated high-flyer, he didn't mind a touch of populism and I think Powell didn't care for that side of things. Anyway, David said 'What do you think Doctor Who will be like in three years' time?'. I had to confess, I didn't really intend still being Doctor Who producer in three years' time, but I saw no reason it shouldn't continue as long it was still able to change and grow like it had been doing for 20-odd years.
"I was about half-convinced he was going to cancel it. But he said 'Keep up the good work. We'll be getting an offer from you for a 23rd season, yes?' and that was it. I put my offer in a while later and we got our renewal. But I think that shows he already had something in mind for Doctor Who."
- Colin Cant, convention appearance, 1997
__________________
"Even as fandom became more of a thing, Doctor Who kept its distance from its fans. You could hold a cult TV convention and Jon Pertwee would be there in his Gabriel Baine costume, playing up for the crowd. But you wouldn't have any of the Doctors there. Don was always busy working. Iain's health made him unwilling to take part. Roger became a stalwart of the convention scene in the 90s, but in the 80s he would more likely send a lovely video message. His genuine love of the programme was obvious, but the video would be of him on a film set, with a completely unintentional subtext that he'd really graduated from Doctor Who. Wherever he was, it did rather seem that anyone would rather be there than in a Novotel near Leeds answering questions about Daleks.
"Colin Baker changed things in the 80s because he loved making appearances and making them in costume. He took the offscreen part of being The Doctor by the scruff of the neck and shook it up.
"Home video also changed the show's standing. I think there was quite a shock when the sales figures came in for the first Doctor Who videotape, Genesis Of The Daleks. Subsequent releases sold similarly well. BBC Enterprises was always aware of the potential of Doctor Who because it was such a steady seller to stations overseas, but home video pitched it to a whole new level. Colin started appearing at conventions worldwide and for a while, he really seemed to be THE Doctor."
- Andrew Barbicane, DVD Extra, Catacombs Of Terror
__________________
"I'd had this seven-year plan for Doctor Who. I was going to be The Doctor even longer than Iain and gradually peel away the layers of the Doctor's character. But after two series, I'd done 26 fifty-minute episodes and Colin Cant had encouraged me to be lovable old Sixie right out of the gate. Don had been sinister, they wanted me to be bumptious and arrogant in a fun sort of way.
"I once did an appearance on All Creatures Great And Small and the producer, John Nathan-Turner great character [2], said my Doctor was 'just like Danny La Rue'. [3] I found that a little surprising, I might not be dead butch, but I thought I was a little more macho than Danny La Rue, but John said 'He's the greatest and he knows he's the greatest and he loves to talk about how great he is, but everyone loves him. He's not mean or arrogant. He's a big head, but he's also a big heart'. Of course, The Doctor has two big hearts, but I think that's a fair description of Sixie.
"There was one story where I got to show the dark side of the character, The Fear Factory. There was a scene where we find out the Doctor has a fear of being alone. As The Doctor wandered around the empty sets, thinking he was the only person left there, maybe the only person left in the universe, I dialed down the smiles until I was playing it very, very still. I really enjoyed that. Someone else had been watching and that performance led to me getting my next role after Doctor Who. But that's another story.
"So, I was entering my third series, maybe thinking I had taken the role as far as I could, but looking forward to working with a new companion to work out a different relationship with."
- Colin Baker, DVD Extra, The Sontaron Mutation
__________________
"Having spoken to other Doctor Who script editors, I believe it was an idea that came up every time they were devising a new companion. I think the make fun of me a little for being the one who went with it. But 'Artful Dodger-type in space', what's not to like?
"Rebecca Lacey brought Zerreck to life wonderfully. We were careful to make clear that her constant thieving was a matter of fending off starvation. It would be easy for a character who's always looking to steal things to lose the audiences sympathy.
"Every time a new companion is unveiled to the press, there's the usual chat from the journalists about whether she'll be a 'screamer' like all the others. It's reductive and unfair to all the hard work done by previous production teams. None of them have just been screamers, they've all been well drawn.
"But we were faced with the issue of making sure we had a companion who was interesting. Sophie had been a very subtly characterized companion, I suppose we felt entitled to be unsubtle. So we turned the Doctor-Companion relationship on its head. Zerreck goes looking for trouble and while she tries to the right thing, her idea of the right thing and the Doctor's don't always line up. Robert Holmes loved the character and his last work for the series contains some of his best lines.
"After all that, we only got to have her for one series."
- Colin Brake, DVD Extra, The Sontaron Mutation
__________________
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Dimbleby
[2] The 1985 Christmas special fits the timeline in terms of an All Creatures episode in production while Colin is also the Doctor and has had enough episodes to make an impression.
[3] Female impersonator and showbiz giant
Next time: a cancellation crisis and 18 months is too long to wait. It's the same, only different.
Last edited:
Very interesting timeline here @Guajolote - I must say I like your Doctors so far and the production details are very interesting. Blake's 7 being an American production is inspired!
Some questions:
1) Do the BBC still wipe some of the early stuff or is more saved due to 3rd Doctor butterflies?
2) What is going on with Star Trek here? I could see Phase II being made Star Wars and Paramount TV Service or not. The 70's show sci-fi has legs on TV.
3) Is David Owen still a Liberal? How did he end up PM?
4) Without Thatcher presumably the Miners Strike, and industrial collapse does not happen? How do Labour approach the Falklands, or does that not happen without the Defence review that removed the navy presence down south?
5) How is Doc Who going in the Commonwealth?
6) What sort of Doctor Who tie in's and Merch is there please?
7) Silvester McCoy as the Monk please?
8) Can you please find a role for David Prowse and Peter Mayhew. In the former case he got screwed after Empire, and in the latter I think he needed more roles.
Please post when you are well.
Some questions:
1) Do the BBC still wipe some of the early stuff or is more saved due to 3rd Doctor butterflies?
2) What is going on with Star Trek here? I could see Phase II being made Star Wars and Paramount TV Service or not. The 70's show sci-fi has legs on TV.
3) Is David Owen still a Liberal? How did he end up PM?
4) Without Thatcher presumably the Miners Strike, and industrial collapse does not happen? How do Labour approach the Falklands, or does that not happen without the Defence review that removed the navy presence down south?
5) How is Doc Who going in the Commonwealth?
6) What sort of Doctor Who tie in's and Merch is there please?
7) Silvester McCoy as the Monk please?
8) Can you please find a role for David Prowse and Peter Mayhew. In the former case he got screwed after Empire, and in the latter I think he needed more roles.
Please post when you are well.
I think I know who "Tony" is, but I don't want to risk spoiling anything in case I'm right, so I'll play dumb for now. Beautiful Job as always.
By the way would you mind giving me a timeline for each companion's run on the show?
Ogrebear:
1. There are still junkings, but fewer Third Doctor episodes with missing colour.
2. Star Trek isn't something I know a great deal about. I've assumed it's been largely unaffected.
3. Callaghan's win in 1978 prevents the breakaway SDP forming. Owen never leaves Labour and takes over as party leader and PM. After the 1983 General Election, he ends up in a minority government with a 'confidence and supply' pact with the liberals.
4. No war. Callaghan keeps tabs just as he did with Operation Journeyman. There's still a bumpy transition from industrial to service economy, but it's softened with policies that divert resources to areas that would suffer the most. This is part of the "Programme for Change" I allude to.
5. Very well. The really big push is yet to come.
6. VHS releases, annuals, Target novelizations, board games and a chocolate selection box. Action figures, DVDs and blu-rays will come later.
7. If I brought the Monk back, I'd have someone tall and stout, I think.
8. I'll make a note.
WhovianHolmesianChap
from my background notes:
Liz Shaw (Caroline John) - Season 7
Jo Grant (Gabrielle Drake) - Season 8-10
Kay Gee (Jenny Twigge) - Season 11-13
Audrey Pierce (Vicky Williams) - Season 13-15
Deelix Nove (Nicholas Lyndhurst) - Season 15
Tina Gibson (Dawn Hope) - Season 16-19
Maxine Clegg (Lesley Dunlop) - Season 19-20
Sophie Chen (Sarah Lam) - Season 20-22
Zerrek (Rebecca Lacey) - Season 23
1. There are still junkings, but fewer Third Doctor episodes with missing colour.
2. Star Trek isn't something I know a great deal about. I've assumed it's been largely unaffected.
3. Callaghan's win in 1978 prevents the breakaway SDP forming. Owen never leaves Labour and takes over as party leader and PM. After the 1983 General Election, he ends up in a minority government with a 'confidence and supply' pact with the liberals.
4. No war. Callaghan keeps tabs just as he did with Operation Journeyman. There's still a bumpy transition from industrial to service economy, but it's softened with policies that divert resources to areas that would suffer the most. This is part of the "Programme for Change" I allude to.
5. Very well. The really big push is yet to come.
6. VHS releases, annuals, Target novelizations, board games and a chocolate selection box. Action figures, DVDs and blu-rays will come later.
7. If I brought the Monk back, I'd have someone tall and stout, I think.
8. I'll make a note.
WhovianHolmesianChap
from my background notes:
Liz Shaw (Caroline John) - Season 7
Jo Grant (Gabrielle Drake) - Season 8-10
Kay Gee (Jenny Twigge) - Season 11-13
Audrey Pierce (Vicky Williams) - Season 13-15
Deelix Nove (Nicholas Lyndhurst) - Season 15
Tina Gibson (Dawn Hope) - Season 16-19
Maxine Clegg (Lesley Dunlop) - Season 19-20
Sophie Chen (Sarah Lam) - Season 20-22
Zerrek (Rebecca Lacey) - Season 23