PFPT (3) - Alternate 19th Century

[Grey Wolf]

I've only been able to recently keep up with your timeline. I like it so far.

I think that you're right about slavery being dismantled at the state level, especially in places like Virginia. I am intrigued to see how weak Britain gets...could France become the new superpower?

I am thinking that France is going to be brought down to Earth by events in Europe. Whether this is through a definite challenge or a new balance of power remains to be seen. But France's ability to project power is hampered by its need to remain secure in Europe

Grey Wolf

 

[DuQuense]

POTUS =President of the US
SCOTUS = Supreme Court ...
POTCS =would be President of the CS
SCOTCS= Supreme Court...

 

[Landshark]

Some very good points - how do you see this playing out ? What are POTCS and SCOCS ? Very interested in your reply

Grey Wolf

President of the Confederate States.

Supreme Court of the Confederate States.

 

[Grey Wolf]

President of the Confederate States.

Supreme Court of the Confederate States.

OIC, dumbass me

What would this Supreme Court have been like ? I assume its reserved powers would have been very different from those of the USA ?

Grey Wolf

 

[Landshark]

Well this is entirely speculation on my part but the USSC is appointed by the POTUS (IIRC).

Given the CSA's comittment to state's rights I'd think this set up would be unacceptable, I'd see the Justices of the SCOCS as being appointed by the state governors or legistatures(sp?). How many CS states are there here? The number might be low enough for them to provide a Justice each without any being left out.

 

[DuQuense]

IOTL CS the POTCS was suposse to appoint the Court, except IIRC that by 1865 Davis still hadn't got around to it.
Given that this is a ATL you get to write your own Clauses.

 

[Grey Wolf]

IOTL CS the POTCS was suposse to appoint the Court, except IIRC that by 1865 Davis still hadn't got around to it.
Given that this is a ATL you get to write your own Clauses.

Since they have to uphold the constitution and are basically there to do this, they would act as a block on any real fundamental change. One wonders exactly how the CSA would get around this if there is the political will for a change. I am thinking along the lines of federal works (rather than slavery) - what if under French auspices and with French loans, the CSA government wants to build stuff, the states are brow-beaten into accord but the Supreme Court rules it as unconstitutional ?

Grey Wolf

 

[DuQuense]

In the very early days of the US when ever there was a conflict between a, CAN DO vs a CAN NOT DO, clauses of the consitution the Supremes almost alway went with the can not. Today they seem to always go with the Can. The CS Supremes whould change over time too.

Remember this CS consitution didn't have the, Texas Fight over relegalizing Slavery, Dred Scott, or even the Trail of Tears. So maybe they didn't hamstring their central goverment the same way.

 

[Abdul Hadi Pasha]

If Ali Pasha were successful in establishing independence, it would likely be ala Egypt in OTL - total autonomy but with nominal sovereignty of the Giray Sultan (I can't figure out what the Giray Empire would be called - I don't know how to turn the 'ay' ending into an Ottoman plural. Pehaps it would be Girayleri).

Or, maybe not, especially if nobody accepts the Girays as Caliphs. In any case, I would guess the title for Ali Pasha would be Emir, perhaps later Sultan, but I don't see King (Malik).

Just a bit of pedantic detail.

 

[Norman]

Very Good, This is one I read often, and I like the idea of putting it onto several two page postings, it keeps the more recent posts easier to find.

 

[Grey Wolf]

If Ali Pasha were successful in establishing independence, it would likely be ala Egypt in OTL - total autonomy but with nominal sovereignty of the Giray Sultan (I can't figure out what the Giray Empire would be called - I don't know how to turn the 'ay' ending into an Ottoman plural. Pehaps it would be Girayleri).

Or, maybe not, especially if nobody accepts the Girays as Caliphs. In any case, I would guess the title for Ali Pasha would be Emir, perhaps later Sultan, but I don't see King (Malik).

Just a bit of pedantic detail.

I was thinking about Bahrain where the emir has translated this into king. The same happened with titles elsewhere - Morocco comes to mind, and the British (admittedly) forced it on Egypt. But I would think that if surviving in the Balkans amidst countries already or becoming kingdoms, the emir or whatever of Janina would see political mileage in calling himself a king after a while

Grey Wolf

 

[Grey Wolf]

In the very early days of the US when ever there was a conflict between a, CAN DO vs a CAN NOT DO, clauses of the consitution the Supremes almost alway went with the can not. Today they seem to always go with the Can. The CS Supremes whould change over time too.

Remember this CS consitution didn't have the, Texas Fight over relegalizing Slavery, Dred Scott, or even the Trail of Tears. So maybe they didn't hamstring their central goverment the same way.

Wasn't the Trail of Tears under Jackson ? I didn't alter anything directly affecting the USA until the latter part of Van Buren's presidency

What deep effecdt do you see the Texas ruling having had in OTL, and conversely being absent, in this ATL ?

Thanks for all your useful and interesting comments

Grey Wolf

 

[Grey Wolf]

Very Good, This is one I read often, and I like the idea of putting it onto several two page postings, it keeps the more recent posts easier to find.

Thank you

Its nice to know people are reading

I agree about the several posts thing, though it was kind of an accident. I felt that no one really landed on 'Penny Flick' and probably because it didn't grab attention as a title. Then I tried to explain it and make it obvious it was a developing timeline with 'Penny Flick, Penny Toss - 2' but whilst it gained me some useful comments and some welcome readers, it didn't quite break in, so to speak. So part 3 I subtitled to show what the heck it was all about

Grey Wolf

 

[Grey Wolf]

In the very early days of the US when ever there was a conflict between a, CAN DO vs a CAN NOT DO, clauses of the consitution the Supremes almost alway went with the can not. Today they seem to always go with the Can. The CS Supremes whould change over time too.

Remember this CS consitution didn't have the, Texas Fight over relegalizing Slavery, Dred Scott, or even the Trail of Tears. So maybe they didn't hamstring their central goverment the same way.

I a thinking in Part 4 (new thread) that William W Loring, elected in 1880, will have a battle with the Confederate Supreme Court. With their European allies either falling away or beginning to refocus on Europe, Loring wants the Confederate States to be reform and be in a position to meet a possible Union threat in the future. This requires peace time use of powers that have been granted grudgingly in war time. The Supreme Court is going to be against this, so I see a clash. I'm not sure how to play this - certainly not the Turtledovian route

Grey Wolf