petrolium (oil) is never discovered or is very rare.

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What if petrolium (oil) had never been discovered? Suppose it is a very rare comodity such as platinum or paladium? Even places in the world such as The Middle East that have an abundance of oil in OTL, what if they had only a small amount, or none at all? How does a world without oil change history?
 
A world where thermoelectricity hadn't been thrown away.
We would most likely make our own energy (DC), leading to easier self-sufficiency (sp?). The really interesting thing: no plastic.
 
they are alternative to oil. you can get a deisel engine to run on bio-feul. you can still have an interal combustion engine without oil (it may be more expensive). so if all petrolium ran out, you can still have the automobile that is very similar to what you have now. you don't need a nuclear powered car or anything like that (I won't get into the hazards of nuclear car)
 
chunkeymonkey13q said:
Perhaps coal would be used for longer. A bigger greenhouse effect?
You can produce petrolium from coal. It isn't like your transmutataing lead to gold (by the way you can do this too). It maybe expensive but you can do this. Germany during WWII produced synthetic petrolium from coal.
 
Forget the fuels - there are alternatives. How about all the other petrochemical industry products?

I'm not sure that in the absence of oil, anyone would consider distilling coal for these, although some inquisitive german chemists might. Even if they did costs would be prohibitive so bye-bye free supermarket carrier bags

A world without plastics
 
Peter Cowan said:
A world without plastics

They have developed means of making plastics from vegetable waste products. It might happen much later, but it could still happen.

Torqumada
 
Peter Cowan said:
Forget the fuels - there are alternatives. How about all the other petrochemical industry products?

I'm not sure that in the absence of oil, anyone would consider distilling coal for these, although some inquisitive german chemists might. Even if they did costs would be prohibitive so bye-bye free supermarket carrier bags

A world without plastics
World population probably levels off around 3 billion too. And why would they convert coal to oil? Going by thermodynamics, that would be a energy looser. Much easier to conceive and build electic cars from the beginning without oil distracting you.
 

Straha

Banned
A more peaceful 21st century. The Oil wars of the 2000's, 2010's and 2020's aren't going to happen.
 
Soyuz said:
World population probably levels off around 3 billion too. And why would they convert coal to oil? Going by thermodynamics, that would be a energy looser. Much easier to conceive and build electic cars from the beginning without oil distracting you.
main reason would be cost. which is cheaper - electric or bio-fuel/synth. I don't see how petroleum accounts for 3 billion in population. So not having wouldn't change the population growth.
 
Is not this in the wrong forum, hard to find petrolium definitely needs to be before 1900, probably need PODS going back a hundred million years.

More coal would not actually increase the greenhouse effect. It does produce C02 and lots of other nasties but it also tends to produce particulates which tend to block the sun and therefore somewhat reduce greenhouse consequences

I am not saying we should just use coal but it is a bit more subtle.

Is the non invention of the Internal Combustion engine possible (again the PODa needs to be before 1900 though
 
greenknight said:
main reason would be cost. which is cheaper - electric or bio-fuel/synth. I don't see how petroleum accounts for 3 billion in population. So not having wouldn't change the population growth.
Electic would be cheaper. Even now synthetic costs a lot. So it's not impossible to do something, it will just be much costlier. And the population will grow slower since pesticides, herbicides and fertilizer are created from oil by-products, as well as the farm machinery and re-distribution networks will all run on some oil-alternative, making the industry less efficient.
 
Soyuz said:
Electic would be cheaper. Even now synthetic costs a lot. So it's not impossible to do something, it will just be much costlier. And the population will grow slower since pesticides, herbicides and fertilizer are created from oil by-products, as well as the farm machinery and re-distribution networks will all run on some oil-alternative, making the industry less efficient.

Fertilizer is made from fixing nitrogen in the air, not petroleum. There is a rather large plant near here that fixes nitrogen to make fertilizer. If it ever goes up, there will be one less mid sized city in the United States. The estimates say it would take the river that runs close by an entire week to fill the resulting crater. I agree with the rest, though.

Torqumada
 
Forget the fuels - there are alternatives. How about all the other petrochemical industry products?

I'm not sure that in the absence of oil, anyone would consider distilling coal for these, although some inquisitive german chemists might. Even if they did costs would be prohibitive so bye-bye free supermarket carrier bags

A world without plastics

industrial power plants remain steam driven

small scale steam gives way to veg oil fueled diesels out of town and tramways / trolley buses remain popular in town

greases and lube oils are veg oil / animal based ( castrol R anyone )

wooden and paper artifacts aren;t replaced by plastic

e.g. home electronics come in wooden or metal cabinets , you pack your shopping into cardboard crates or paper bags

milk, beer, fizzy pop stays in glass bottles or metal tins until the invention of a metalised or varnished paper tetra pak type product ...
 
A more peaceful 21st century. The Oil wars of the 2000's, 2010's and 2020's aren't going to happen.

But likely a far bloodier 20th century since the slowed technological development means later nuclear weapons. Without nuclear weapons and MAD you probably have at least 3 world wars.
 
I guess cars will either be electric or steam.


A world where thermoelectricity hadn't been thrown away.
We would most likely make our own energy (DC), leading to easier self-sufficiency (sp?). The really interesting thing: no plastic.

You can still make plastic without petro. Now whether or not it would be invented in the first place without it, yes, I can see how that may be.
 

CalBear

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industrial power plants remain steam driven

small scale steam gives way to veg oil fueled diesels out of town and tramways / trolley buses remain popular in town

greases and lube oils are veg oil / animal based ( castrol R anyone )

wooden and paper artifacts aren;t replaced by plastic

e.g. home electronics come in wooden or metal cabinets , you pack your shopping into cardboard crates or paper bags

milk, beer, fizzy pop stays in glass bottles or metal tins until the invention of a metalised or varnished paper tetra pak type product ...
Six years?

SIX YEARS FOUR MONTHS?

Really?

Please let the dead rest in peace. If a thread has been dead for more than six months let it decompose on its own (unless you are the Original Poster). If you find the subject of interest, start a new thread.
 
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