Peter Stuyvesant goes to Brasil and not to New Amsterdam

As part of a grand scheme the Dutch West Indian Company (WIC) tried to conquer all South Amarican possesions and the Afriacn slave stations of the Portugugese. From 1634 to 1644 this was done with reasonable succes under the leadership of Johan Maurits from Nassau Siegen. Unfortunatly this was acchieved at a great finacial cost. Between the board of directors of the WIC and their governor Joahn Maurits grew over the years crucial difference in how to govern the new possessions. This disputes grew to such an extend that Joahn Maurits was requested to leave which he finaly did in 1644. Soon after the Brazilian planters, heavily in debt by the Dutch traders and WIC rose in rebellion.
The Dutch were not able to quell the rebelio and gradually lost teritory and finally their last strong point Recife.
One of the disadvantage of the Dutch was a strong determined leader ship which was able to manage the land forces and the naval forces and had at the same time diplomatic cababilities.

I think Peter Stuyvesant had this capabilities.
There for, what would happen if Peter Stuyvesant was sent to Recife, Brasil, in stead of New Amsterdam (New York) in 1647 ?
 
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By 1647, haven't the Dutch already lost everything but Recife? If Stuyvesant can somehow retake everything from the Portuguese, it's not easy for him.
 
By 1647, haven't the Dutch already lost everything but Recife? If Stuyvesant can somehow retake everything from the Portuguese, it's not easy for him.

Not in 1647. how ever a large part. A year later the Dutch could not leave a the perimeter out side Recife how ever they hold it out until 1654.
 
Just a sketch

Assume Peter Stuyvesant is sent to Dutch Brazil and, more ore less, reorganise and secure the plantation colony as, masterly described in EdT's 'the bloody man'.


The following effect's on the North American and South America trade post and colonies

At New Amsterdam, after the order to resign of Director Kieft, in 1645 the council of Twelve take matters in their own hand.

After opposition against another director of the WIC, New Amsterdam will receive city right s in 1648, followed by Fort Orange, ( Albany) in 1650).
This is several years earlier than OTL.

A prominent colonist van der Donckt travels to the Dutch Republic in order the promote the colony and to persuade people to migrate. During his visit he achieve a rule of the State General, the government of the Dutch Republic, that a fund will provide the cost for transport to New Amsterdam and that ships are committed to take passengers on board. Even the whole scheme was not that successful never the less the migration to New Netherland turned in a steady influx.

The migration to New Holland, Dutch Brazil, was far less, largely due to the restriction the WIC still had on this part. The planters were bound with leg and feet to the WIC who had still the monopoly on the slave trade. A monopoly which the WIC used to monopolise most of the other trade.


The first Anglo-Dutch war was paraxial a relieve for the planters. The war disrupted trade and control of the WIC which. The planters, in search of income, found this by trading with Spain, France and Portugal. The war had minor effect on New Netherland.

After the peace treaty of 1655 the WIC tried to regain their control over their Brazilian colonies, in which it only partial succeed. Instead the city council of Maurits-stad (Recife)in 1662, sent an envoy to the Dutch Republic to grand more rights. Their complains and demands were point of long debates which in resulted in more restrictions of the WIC, city rights for Maurits-stad, Frederick- stad, Fort Keulen and the settlement around Fort Maurits.

1665 Second Anglo- Dutch war, which started with the attack on New Amsterdam. The Burghers New Amsterdam and the colonial militia defend the city against the English but surrenders in the end.
English pirate attack on Tobago is repelled thanks to the accidental arrival of five ships, among them one war ship from Maurits-stad.
Due to uncertain trade lanes, planters in New Holland contract Spanish, Portuguese and French slave traders and transports to ship their products to Europe, effectively breaking the WIC.
1667 End of 2nd Anglo-Dutch war, New Netherlands is returned to the Dutch Republic. New Holland is enlarged with former English plantations along the river Suriname.

1672 Dutch war and 3rd Anglo Dutch war. Trade with Europe comes to a halt.
Tobago attacked by 6 English ships and 600 soldiers, but attack repelled by the colonist.

North and South American colonies grew considerable and gain more self-control. New Netherland is granted representation in the Estate General, making it de-facto a Province. A fund is created which finance a squadron of war ships to secure the trade lanes an protect the colonies against raiders.

1677 Heavy French attack on Tobago which is repelled. Later that year the French attack again with a large force but after 4 days the French are destroyed and only due to the timely arrival of the South American squadron.

1681 Since the ‘dragonades’ in France a ever increasing number of Huguenots from France entered the American settlements. Especially the Dutch rulers in the South American colonies of New Holland, saw opportunity to enlarge the protestant population. They tried to persuade the refugees with attractive shipping rates and success stories. After the revocation of the Edict of Nantes in 1685 the migration toward both New Holland as New Netherland grew considerably and the years 1685-1690 saw the largest influx of settlers in New Holland ever.

1702 Just before the War of the Spanish succession New Amsterdam was a city of significant size with around 6000 people with almost the same number in the other parts of the colony. Maurits-stad had around 8000 free Burghers with nearly the double in the other parts of New Holland. Tobago 4000 free Burghers. The colonies of Berbice, Suriname and Essequibo were more plantation colonies with a relative small European population.
Despite economic losses most colonies were spared from attack or raids.
During the 18th century the population of European descent grew considerable as with the self-consciousness of the Free Burghers. New Amsterdam turned in a real copy of its large counterpart in Europe, growing wealthy as trade port of local products, slaves and colonial products form the Southern colonies also the British colonies.
Maurits-stad transformed in the largest city of the South American East coast, and showed their wealth made with export of colonial products with rich houses and buildings among long lanes. The City also included the largest university of the new world.
1776 New Amsterdam is confronted with the American revolution and due to it support to the rebels, it sells all kind of supplies, is occupied by the British. After the American independence it remain under Dutch control how ever it was one of the first to make trade and custom agreements with the new nation.
When the Dutch Republic become a puppet of revolutionary France it asked to join the United States of America.
The more aristocratic Burgers and plantation owners of the South American colonies were enthusiast followers of the en-lightment but were suspicious of the revolution as it enfolded in France and the support it had in the Dutch Republic.
New Holland how ever remain loyal but when the Batavian republic is terminated in declares independence , which is for a large part motivated by economic factors. In 1803 it took control of the various African trade stations among the Gold coast, the Congo river and the Cape colony. It allied them self with Great Britain out of self-conservation and trade opportunities.
After the fall of Napoleon and the declaration of the Kingdom of the Netherlands, New Holland submitted itself to the new monarch nevertheless with such amount of concessions that it was nearly independent.
 
I don't think a continued Dutch Brazil means that the netherlands would be able to keep new Amsterdam. Mind you, it is possible, but it loses something else in the peace deal. most likely Surinam. The scenario you posted is basicly an everything goes right for the netherlands in the Americas, meaning becomes unlikely.

Also butterflies. if The New Netherlands remains Dutch, I am fairly certain the American war of independence will be butterflied away. Actualy i think it couls even mean that New France remains French.
 
I wonder if the Dutch do very well in South America what would be the knockon effects if something like the Glorious Revolution and William is invited to england? Would the French or Spanish try to invade Brazil?
 
I wonder if the Dutch do very well in South America what would be the knockon effects if something like the Glorious Revolution and William is invited to england? Would the French or Spanish try to invade Brazil?
They might try, but you have to remember that the Netherlands was far far stronger than France at least if you look at the navy.
 
I don't think a continued Dutch Brazil means that the netherlands would be able to keep new Amsterdam. Mind you, it is possible, but it loses something else in the peace deal. most likely Surinam. The scenario you posted is basicly an everything goes right for the netherlands in the Americas, meaning becomes unlikely.


Also butterflies. if The New Netherlands remains Dutch, I am fairly certain the American war of independence will be butterflied away. Actualy i think it couls even mean that New France remains French.


I asumed that the city counsil of New Amsterdam will take matters in their own hands two decades earlier than in OTL. As I understood of the records, most improvements were initiated by this city counsil, although during the directorate of Stuyvesant. Asuming New Amsterdam becomes earlier a, town with city rights. Given this and the open marked due to the disaperance of the WIC monoplolies the colony is more atractive to immigrants. I think the colonist have more reason to defent this rights when confronted with an invading force which represent an absolute monarch.

Furter more Suriname and New Amsterdam changed hands as part of a peace treaty in which the Dutch were the demanding party. Since the New Amsterdam and Fort Orange are now 'Dutch' cities they won't be exchanged that easy. Even Suriname is more valuable at that time., and would be regraded as a nice add on on the already exisiting Brasilan and Carabian colonies.


I do not think a 'Dutch' New Amsterdam will prevent the American revolution. In the contrary, it will give the revolutionairs a suply base, as long as they pay, and a refuge place.
The whole American revolt was more or less in line with the principles of the Dutch 'Patriots' and most likely they would have had followers in New Amsterdam.

It is not really a scenario were everything goes right, just different and more favorable for the Dutch. Maurits Stad could take the function of a strong hold with a, relative, extensive naval infrastructure as Batavia did in the East which in turn could support power projection to guard smaller plantation colonies like the one on Tobago with more succes as in OTL.
 
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I wonder if the Dutch do very well in South America what would be the knockon effects if something like the Glorious Revolution and William is invited to england? Would the French or Spanish try to invade Brazil?

Most likely several isolated part will be raided. How ever Maurits stad was a very well defended city surrounded by city wall and flanked by two large forts. This will provde a resonable secure power base.
 
I asumed that the city counsil of New Amsterdam will take matters in their own hands two decades earlier than in OTL. As I understood of the records, most improvements were initiated by this city counsil, although during the directorate of Stuyvesant. Asuming New Amsterdam becomes earlier a, town with city rights. Given this and the open marked due to the disaperance of the WIC monoplolies the colony is more atractive to immigrants. I think the colonist have more reason to defent this rights when confronted with an invading force which represent an absolute monarch.

Furter more Suriname and New Amsterdam changed hands as part of a peace treaty in which the Dutch were the demanding party. Since the New Amsterdam and Fort Orange are now 'Dutch' cities they won't be exchanged that easy. Even Suriname is more valuable at that time., and would be regraded as a nice add on on the already exisiting Brasilan and Carabian colonies.

The thing is, although the Netherlands did win the second Anglo-Dutch war, they did not win it so overwhelmingly they could keep both Surinam and the New Netherlands. I agree with you that if New Amsterdam (and possibly other cities) would have had city rights and such the chance is more likely for the Netherlands that they want to keep them and thus return Surinam to the English (something the English offered OTL). This is made even more likely if the New Netherlands is less depended on the WIC. Still, the English want something returned. They did not lose the war so badly that the Netherlands can demand whatever they want. They did occupy the New Netherlands after all. So the Dutch must choose: Surinam or New Amsterdam. If they choose New Amsterdam, Surinam will be returned. If they choose Surinam, New Amsterdam becomes English, like OTL. And I doubt A continued Dutch Brasil means the Dutch do so much better in the Anglo-Dutch war that they could keep both.

I do not think a 'Dutch' New Amsterdam will prevent the American revolution. In the contrary, it will give the revolutionairs a suply base, as long as they pay, and a refuge place.
The whole American revolt was more or less in line with the principles of the Dutch 'Patriots' and most likely they would have had followers in New Amsterdam.
The problem is that the New Netherlands splits the English/British colonies. That alone leads to big butterflies. There will be a lot less connection between New England and the southern colonies. It means butterflies in the warsof Britain against France. For example the Iriquois could remain Dutch allies and not fight for the British. It is certainly possible that New France/Quebec could remain French. Especialy considering the Dutch did not fight in the seven-year war (which would probably be butterflied away). It could mean that out of fear for the French (and perhaps the Dutch? fear does not have to be rational) New England decides to stay with Britain. The southern colonies were more loyal to Britain anyway, so no American revolution.
 
I agree, with Suriname, it would be returned to England. New Hollands is more than inough sugar colony, while Suriname would be just a relative small adition.

I am still not convinced that a New Netherland in North Amreica will prevent an American Revolt. It might be act a cathalist since it is more independent than the other British and French colonies and an example of self governing. During the 18th century the Dutch and British were in the same camp, only at the Seven years war the Dutch were neutral.

Any idea what impact a large migration colony in South America and a smaller one in North America would have on the Dutch Republic?
 
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