There were demands in Parliament from some of the Missionary Party for another Constitutional revision. Many in that party wanted to restrict the kings powers and to stop Hawaii getting involved in these foreign adventures.. The Prim Minister was denounced but it would seem that with the massive flow of money into the treasury most people were not concern. This was especially true because Great Britain was happy that no other power had claimed the Islands, like the emerging German Empire of the Japanese. Hawaii was regarded as a minor player that could be influenced by Britain.
Peshwar Lancers Redux: Kingdom of Hawaii
- Thread starter chris N
- Start date
Hawaii was attempting to find areas in which it could find the resources that it needed. It discovered that in Central America some of the resources could be gained. The region had Copper, Iron Zinc antimony Salt and Lead. It also had Gold Silver and Limestone. The Hawaiians were able to supply the new Republic with explosives as well as refine woods and furniture. It also provided food products. It was this relationship which was to prove handy. For both countries had items that the other needed.
The emerging Central American Republic was caught between two powers that would be growing after the Fall Mexico and Columbia and in the new world there would be few friends to help thwart the threat.
The emerging Central American Republic was caught between two powers that would be growing after the Fall Mexico and Columbia and in the new world there would be few friends to help thwart the threat.
A Report showed to the Hawaiian Prime Minister the location of Coal deposits in the US. Most of the coal bought from the US had to come from the interior. Hawaii had also purchased coal from Australia and Canada but what would happen in an emergency?
The Hawaiian Navy had built up a 9 month reserve of Coal and a decision had been made to set up facilities on Midway to store more.
The Hawaiian Navy had built up a 9 month reserve of Coal and a decision had been made to set up facilities on Midway to store more.
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David S Poepoe
Banned
I don't think there is any really 'secret map' of coal deposits in the US it is all pretty well known, at least in the 1860s where the largest deposits are. You really should edit a few of your posts since in one it looked like you were suggesting the Hawaiians build a railroad from Nauru to Honolulu.
Its is likely that a Hawaiian government would move to establish contact with the last sovereign Polynesian nations, like Samoa, Fiji, Tuvalu, etc. Contact with Tahiti would be important because of the historical pre-Contact voyages that connected Hawaii with Tahiti. One can also consider the Maori as people to contact.
Nauru has a small population that would have to be taken into account.
Sorry I haven't been a bit more regular in suggestions, but I'm, funny thing enough, here in Honolulu right now.
Its is likely that a Hawaiian government would move to establish contact with the last sovereign Polynesian nations, like Samoa, Fiji, Tuvalu, etc. Contact with Tahiti would be important because of the historical pre-Contact voyages that connected Hawaii with Tahiti. One can also consider the Maori as people to contact.
Nauru has a small population that would have to be taken into account.
Sorry I haven't been a bit more regular in suggestions, but I'm, funny thing enough, here in Honolulu right now.
The Hawaiian Government had also been attempting to establish contact with its fellow Polynesians. The Large Cruiser His Hawaiian Majesty's Ship King Kamehameha I paid a visit to Samoa and Fuji in an attempt to establish better relations with its fellow Polynesians.
The Small Garrison on Nauru had managed to recruit some islanders to argument its force but that would be it as there was not a large population to draw from. Trade and better relations were what the Hawaiian government had in mind, especially it's Prime Minister. The Missionary Party on the other hand wanted to stay out of it fearing that it would draw Hawaii into the big powers struggle and endanger their main goal annexation by the US.
Little did they realize that that goal would be gone in just a short period of time by an "Act of God". What relations Hawaii formed would strengthen her for the coming struggle. . The Hawaiian were able to acquire the sister ship of the CSS Stonewall for a mare pittance . The ship would need some work but nothing major. Japan had already purchased the Stonewall and was copying it for its Navy.
The Small Garrison on Nauru had managed to recruit some islanders to argument its force but that would be it as there was not a large population to draw from. Trade and better relations were what the Hawaiian government had in mind, especially it's Prime Minister. The Missionary Party on the other hand wanted to stay out of it fearing that it would draw Hawaii into the big powers struggle and endanger their main goal annexation by the US.
Little did they realize that that goal would be gone in just a short period of time by an "Act of God". What relations Hawaii formed would strengthen her for the coming struggle. . The Hawaiian were able to acquire the sister ship of the CSS Stonewall for a mare pittance . The ship would need some work but nothing major. Japan had already purchased the Stonewall and was copying it for its Navy.
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The Royal Hawaiian Navy received the last of the arms that it would get. Arriving were some replacement guns for the navy, 500 Martin Henry Rifles for the Naval Landing Parties and the small Hawaiian Marine Corp. The government also received several more coastal defense guns and some additional small arms.
Rails arrived from the United states as well as a locomotive, tender and some rail cars for the construction of the Oahu rail Line.
Rails arrived from the United states as well as a locomotive, tender and some rail cars for the construction of the Oahu rail Line.
Time was slowly drawing to a close to the end of the pre- Fall period of the History of the Kingdom Of Hawaii. The Kingdom now had a lot of contact with other Polynesian people. Due to inprovement in Health the Polynesian population of the islands was far larger than in OTL. Still the Islands had many of the same problems . It had no domestic production of coal because there was none on the island. It had used its natural resouces to as much advantage as possible. It had harness the power of the wind with windmills and had also adopted the production of power by dams. Because its climitate there was generally a low demand for the burning of coal or wood for heat.
The Prime Minister had had the stockpiling of coal for at least a 9 month period so as to assure that the nations navy and other government facilities would have it.
The government had a limited ability to produce arms and munitions as it had generally imported that from Britain or the US. There were sevearal gunsmiths on the islands and the Government had acquired the capacity to produce bullets for its small arms. As for Munitions for its cannons it was unknown. The ships all had their Munitions lockers full and there was enough stockpiled to fight a small war but could it produce more on its own was a question that the Secretay of War/Navy was trying to find out.
The Prime Minister had had the stockpiling of coal for at least a 9 month period so as to assure that the nations navy and other government facilities would have it.
The government had a limited ability to produce arms and munitions as it had generally imported that from Britain or the US. There were sevearal gunsmiths on the islands and the Government had acquired the capacity to produce bullets for its small arms. As for Munitions for its cannons it was unknown. The ships all had their Munitions lockers full and there was enough stockpiled to fight a small war but could it produce more on its own was a question that the Secretay of War/Navy was trying to find out.
David S Poepoe
Banned
You certainly like saddling the Hawaiians with some of the worst warships of the time period. Any ship of the Royal Navy would just prefixed by HMS, not His Hawaiian Majesty's Ship.
Since the ships that I mentioned by name are now in the Hawaiian Navy the correct form is His Hawaiian Majesty's Ship. I went with the Alabama type of cruiser because it was something that would have a longer range and could be bought fairly cheaply. The French built Stonewall class Ironclad may have been a big mistake on my part as it is a white elephant.
Still it might be of some use.
The four gunboats were I thought a good fit for the Hawaiian Navy's needs and if you recall it was you who gave me the idea. I admit that I am not totally happy with the Hawaiian Navy but it getting too close to THE Fall to have new ships arrive. Still I might do a revision. So any further ideas?
Still it might be of some use.
The four gunboats were I thought a good fit for the Hawaiian Navy's needs and if you recall it was you who gave me the idea. I admit that I am not totally happy with the Hawaiian Navy but it getting too close to THE Fall to have new ships arrive. Still I might do a revision. So any further ideas?
The Hawaiian Government in one of its last moves approved the purchase of two additional gunboats from Britain. These would give the Navy a total of 2 Cruisers(frigates) and 6 gunboats. With coal being an item that one would have to import the Hawaiian navy was depending upon vessels which could also use sail in order to stretch out its supply.
The Hawaiian Navy could use wood in its engines but it was felt that this was not desirable as it increased the danger of fire much more so than coal.
The Royal Hawaiian Military finally established a base on Midway Island and began the job of salvaging the ships that had been wrecked there. The facilites to be built included storage facilities for Water and coal and the building of some kind of barracks as well as some fortification. Needless to say the debate on the spending on the project lead to a massive argument between the two major Political Parties. Mister Standford B Dole attacked the plan as a giant waste of the Kingdoms resources while Prime Minister Walter M Gibson in his address called Mr Dole short sighted and completely failing to understand that the project was needed as part of the defense of Not only Hawaii but to protect the routes to Nauru, which was now providing Hawaii with revenue.
Mister Samuel Mills Dawson the Minister of Trade pointed out that the Project would not cost the taxpayers anything. He also pointed out that in view of the fact that Hawaii had to import all of its coal and metals it was necessary that trade be protected.
In another Bill the Military received funds to purchase 39 Gatling guns from the Colt firearms Company for the Hawaiian Military.
The Hawaiian Navy could use wood in its engines but it was felt that this was not desirable as it increased the danger of fire much more so than coal.
The Royal Hawaiian Military finally established a base on Midway Island and began the job of salvaging the ships that had been wrecked there. The facilites to be built included storage facilities for Water and coal and the building of some kind of barracks as well as some fortification. Needless to say the debate on the spending on the project lead to a massive argument between the two major Political Parties. Mister Standford B Dole attacked the plan as a giant waste of the Kingdoms resources while Prime Minister Walter M Gibson in his address called Mr Dole short sighted and completely failing to understand that the project was needed as part of the defense of Not only Hawaii but to protect the routes to Nauru, which was now providing Hawaii with revenue.
Mister Samuel Mills Dawson the Minister of Trade pointed out that the Project would not cost the taxpayers anything. He also pointed out that in view of the fact that Hawaii had to import all of its coal and metals it was necessary that trade be protected.
In another Bill the Military received funds to purchase 39 Gatling guns from the Colt firearms Company for the Hawaiian Military.
David S Poepoe
Banned
I was just referring to the purchase of the Stonewall.
The prefix of HMS is correct in the same manner as the Germans typically used SMS, His Majesty's Ship (in German) and the Dutch and Netherlands used the same arrangement. The British don't refer to their ships as His Britannic Majesty's Ship or His British Majesty's Ship. The Hawaiian Government, or any other government for that matter, would not use the redundancy of 'His Hawaiian Majesty's Ship' since who else's ships are they owning? The historical Hawaiian warship Kamiloa was simply called HMS Kamiloa.
Also the Royal (Hawaiian) Navy wouldn't use wood to fire its engines. Very few steamships do and wood isn't available, especially on islands, in the quantity needed. Coal burns better and, as historically shown by the British navy, would just be conserved as much as possible since it was expensive. There would just be a greater use of sail with the steam engines fired up on rare circumstances.
At the most I could see a purely steam driven harbor defense ship, like a coastal defense monitor, at Honolulu that frequently sails between just the Hawaiian islands and no further. Consider the gunboat HMVS Victoria or was it Protector, in the Victorian Navy down in Australia.
The Royal Navy delivered the two additional Gunboats to Gibraltar and from there a Mixed Hawaiian British Crew sailed them through the Med and the Suez Canal. the voyage gave the Hawaiian a chance to learn how to operate the Vessel. They were joined by a large ship of the Royal Navy.
The HMS Minotaur really impressed the Hawaiian as many had never seen a warship so large.
The HMS Minotaur really impressed the Hawaiian as many had never seen a warship so large.
David I would appreciate any suggestions for names for the six x British Gunboats currently serving in the Hawaiian Navy. I think that I will have the Stonewall class ironclad sold by the Hawaiians to the Australians for Scrap. I think that the suggestion of a Monitor be be retained close at home for Coastal defense is a good one. Suggestions?
Perhaps two of these vessels might have been built by Great Britain and sold to Hawaii for the close defense of the Home Islands.
Perhaps two of these vessels might have been built by Great Britain and sold to Hawaii for the close defense of the Home Islands.
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The Arrival of the two Monitors from the British Shipyard completed the purchase of Naval ships. That purchase combined with purchase of other arms and the investment into a rail line on Oahu and another on the Big Island had left the treasury in a low state. The Kingdom had been spending money so fast that the reserves were only slowly growing.
Stanford B Dole seemed to be one of the leaders of the Group calling for a weaking of the Monarchy and strengthening of the Parliament. He also seemed to move in the direction of limiting who would be able to vote in elections.
This might have been possible if conditions had been similar to out time line but with a fairly large Polynesian Population that was bound to create a backlash.
One of the new Hawaiian Military cadets was angry over the attempt to weaken the Monarchy. Robert Wilcox , sometimes referred to as the Iron Duke of Hawaii, had chosen a military career and had been sent by the King to Italy to receive Engieering training. In late 1875 he received notice that he was to cut his training short and return home. The King had been having some feelings that something was going to happen and wanted to be ready.
Hawaii thus made its last purchase of coal, Iron, Lead and other materials. The purchase would arrive in time and it would be the last one to arrive before the Fall.
Stanford B Dole seemed to be one of the leaders of the Group calling for a weaking of the Monarchy and strengthening of the Parliament. He also seemed to move in the direction of limiting who would be able to vote in elections.
This might have been possible if conditions had been similar to out time line but with a fairly large Polynesian Population that was bound to create a backlash.
One of the new Hawaiian Military cadets was angry over the attempt to weaken the Monarchy. Robert Wilcox , sometimes referred to as the Iron Duke of Hawaii, had chosen a military career and had been sent by the King to Italy to receive Engieering training. In late 1875 he received notice that he was to cut his training short and return home. The King had been having some feelings that something was going to happen and wanted to be ready.
Hawaii thus made its last purchase of coal, Iron, Lead and other materials. The purchase would arrive in time and it would be the last one to arrive before the Fall.
1876 Cadet Wilcox had requested permission to remain in Italy to complete his last course and he was informed that he must return home no latter than July of 1877.
Construction was beginning on several projects on the Islands.
The Minister of trade reported that it appeared that the country would have a slight surplus in the next fiscal year thanks to the continued sale of Guano.
The Minister of Military/Naval Affairs reported that there were now enough stockpiling of coal for the Navy to last them for a Year without any further purchases.
The King had out of his own pocket given a grant to build a facility to observe the Stars. This was part of his grant for educational improvements. He had called for improvement to the new University of Hawaii.
Construction was beginning on several projects on the Islands.
The Minister of trade reported that it appeared that the country would have a slight surplus in the next fiscal year thanks to the continued sale of Guano.
The Minister of Military/Naval Affairs reported that there were now enough stockpiling of coal for the Navy to last them for a Year without any further purchases.
The King had out of his own pocket given a grant to build a facility to observe the Stars. This was part of his grant for educational improvements. He had called for improvement to the new University of Hawaii.
As 1876 progressed some observers in Hawaii were looking at all of the changes that the country had gone through. The country now had one of the best medical care systems in not only the Pacific . As a result of that the death rate among the native Polynesian population had dropped massively. Hawaii had established an educational system that was insuring that its people could all read and write. The Great King Kamehameha III had set the wheels in motion by the establishment of first two major hospitals and then a one specializing in care for children. He had also had the government provide funds for the establishment of a college, which had latter become the University of Hawaii. It had a school of medicine, engineering, teaching and added on much over the years.
The nation had seen the beginnings of an industry that hopefully would add to the economy. The threat to its independence in the past had finally caused it to build its own military. While some wanted to hitch Hawaii to the rising power to Hawaii's east ( the US) it appeared that Great Britain did not want that to happen. Relations with the British had grown quite warm. Hawaii had purchased a lot of its ships from the British and the British were only too happy to see the Hawaiians take territory which might have otherwise gone to another power.
The American Civil War had shown the Hawaiians that while Hawaii should maintain strong relations with both the US and Great Britain it must count on itself first.
Still Hawaii was too dependent upon key goods being imported. But it was left with little choice in the manner as Hawaii lacked key elements.
Electric power was in its infancy but Hawaii did have a capacity to produce it in the future using wind and water.
As it need the life Changing point of THE FALL it appeared that the Nationalist Party had managed to out maneuver the Missionary Party for direction of the Country. Prime Minister Walter M Gibson had proven to be a capable leader for the Time and he will prove to be the man to steer the country in the crisis.
Will the Members of the Parliament put the interest of the Nation ahead of their own interest. King David had shown that he was willing to support growth but was he a monarch that would stand up to the coming crisis or would he fail and be replace by a relative as the Ruler of Hawaii.
Population wise Hawaii is in good shape to meet the crisis. It had enough resources to allow it to become something larger. Yet the coming world will be one that is full of much risk and threats. These threat may see the return of piracy and threat from powers that will be formed. It ill also see a danger from within from those who seek personal power and riches at the expense of all else.
It is now 1877 and the time is approaching when all will change.
Hawaii's destiny will be in the hands of people whose choices may result in life or death.
The nation had seen the beginnings of an industry that hopefully would add to the economy. The threat to its independence in the past had finally caused it to build its own military. While some wanted to hitch Hawaii to the rising power to Hawaii's east ( the US) it appeared that Great Britain did not want that to happen. Relations with the British had grown quite warm. Hawaii had purchased a lot of its ships from the British and the British were only too happy to see the Hawaiians take territory which might have otherwise gone to another power.
The American Civil War had shown the Hawaiians that while Hawaii should maintain strong relations with both the US and Great Britain it must count on itself first.
Still Hawaii was too dependent upon key goods being imported. But it was left with little choice in the manner as Hawaii lacked key elements.
Electric power was in its infancy but Hawaii did have a capacity to produce it in the future using wind and water.
As it need the life Changing point of THE FALL it appeared that the Nationalist Party had managed to out maneuver the Missionary Party for direction of the Country. Prime Minister Walter M Gibson had proven to be a capable leader for the Time and he will prove to be the man to steer the country in the crisis.
Will the Members of the Parliament put the interest of the Nation ahead of their own interest. King David had shown that he was willing to support growth but was he a monarch that would stand up to the coming crisis or would he fail and be replace by a relative as the Ruler of Hawaii.
Population wise Hawaii is in good shape to meet the crisis. It had enough resources to allow it to become something larger. Yet the coming world will be one that is full of much risk and threats. These threat may see the return of piracy and threat from powers that will be formed. It ill also see a danger from within from those who seek personal power and riches at the expense of all else.
It is now 1877 and the time is approaching when all will change.
Hawaii's destiny will be in the hands of people whose choices may result in life or death.
David s, I have been away from the computer, but when you memtioned harbour defence ships, I do not know about Victoria, but the Vics certainly had a HMCS (Her Majesty's Colonial Ship) Cerberus and South Australia had HMCS Protector. (Our whole navy.)
At this time, between the grain and copper trade and being the entry/exit for everything from inland NSW and Victoria, Pt Adelaide was pretty busy. (Apparently it even had more traffic than Sydney).
As an aside, when a ship from the MN visited Adelaide and chatted with a South Aussie naval officer, his response to being told that there was only one vesel was, "Good. Then there is no chance of a collision!"
At this time, between the grain and copper trade and being the entry/exit for everything from inland NSW and Victoria, Pt Adelaide was pretty busy. (Apparently it even had more traffic than Sydney).
As an aside, when a ship from the MN visited Adelaide and chatted with a South Aussie naval officer, his response to being told that there was only one vesel was, "Good. Then there is no chance of a collision!"
1877 With the final ships scheduled to arrive from the British the Royal Hawaiian Navy was complete. More coal had been ordered from several sources for the Military and it appeared that the Hawaiian Shipping lines had also ordered more as there had been a growth in trade. The Hawaiian Shipping lines had ordered another Merchant ship from Britain and 1 from the US. There was even talk of having a ship built in Australia .
The British government offered Hawaii 2 additional Gunboats at Bargain prices and the Minister for Military and Naval Affairs recommend that the Purchase be approved. As expected it created another storm in the Parliament between the Royalist/Nationalist and the Missionary Parties..
There were some physical blows between members requiring the Police officers stationed at the chamber to intervene.. The motion passed 28 to 12. But two members latter had to be taken to the Hospital . It was the first act of violence in the Chamber. It was believed that the purcahse of the ships and the expansion of the Hawaiian Military was a clear signal that annexation was never to happen. What the members on the Missionary Party side failed to realize was that Great Britain had twice blocked US annexation of the islands and soon an event would take place which would block it for decades.
The British government offered Hawaii 2 additional Gunboats at Bargain prices and the Minister for Military and Naval Affairs recommend that the Purchase be approved. As expected it created another storm in the Parliament between the Royalist/Nationalist and the Missionary Parties..
There were some physical blows between members requiring the Police officers stationed at the chamber to intervene.. The motion passed 28 to 12. But two members latter had to be taken to the Hospital . It was the first act of violence in the Chamber. It was believed that the purcahse of the ships and the expansion of the Hawaiian Military was a clear signal that annexation was never to happen. What the members on the Missionary Party side failed to realize was that Great Britain had twice blocked US annexation of the islands and soon an event would take place which would block it for decades.