If the waves are going to go into the Appalachian mountains, of course its going to go around them and into the plains through the Gulf of Mexico. These types of waves, the ones the earth gets on from normal conditions have been known to curve, bounce, and believe it or not, travel up rivers. What do you think a wave from this asteriod will do? From the appendix Stirling talks about the waves reaching into the Appalachian mountains, from that statement I looked at the map and drew my lines and gestimated from that where I think they would go in areas that did not have mountains. That is what I came up with. Its an educated guess from someone who doesnt have the computing skills for the math of it nor the computer generator to see it that way. Take notice that most of that area in the south is not that high above sea level, especially the coastal regions. The Mississippi is even lower all along its base. The continent actually tried to rip itself in two along that river mellenia ago. The river and its tributaries are not that high above sea level for a long while inland.
Peshawar Lancers Redux: North America
- Thread starter Strategos' Risk
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If the waves are going to go into the Appalachian mountains, of course its going to go around them and into the plains through the Gulf of Mexico. These types of waves, the ones the earth gets on from normal conditions have been known to curve, bounce, and believe it or not, travel up rivers. What do you think a wave from this asteriod will do? From the appendix Stirling talks about the waves reaching into the Appalachian mountains, from that statement I looked at the map and drew my lines and gestimated from that where I think they would go in areas that did not have mountains. That is what I came up with. Its an educated guess from someone who doesnt have the computing skills for the math of it nor the computer generator to see it that way. Take notice that most of that area in the south is not that high above sea level, especially the coastal regions. The Mississippi is even lower all along its base. The continent actually tried to rip itself in two along that river mellenia ago. The river and its tributaries are not that high above sea level for a long while inland.
Wow, this whole discussion kinda depresses me. All of South Carolina is drowned. That seems rather unfair.
Actually the problem is we are working with Stirling's idea that the tsunami goes all the way to the Appalachians. Wouldn't an asteroid that explosive in its impact be more like the KT Boundary Event? In which case we don't need to worry about human history on any continent and we can discuss the success or failure of the highly evolved cockroach civilization 100,000,000 years from now!
Yeah I think we need to either contact Stirling with precise Fall damage effects or dig up the discussions on SHWI he had before the book was written.
How do you think I feel? My homestate will be frozen over leading to long process of starvation and eventual cannablism, the countries that my family came from are either getting hit full-on by the tidal waves or are also going to suffer starvation/freezing. I'm not just getting butterflied away, I'm getting blasted out of existence over a century early!
As for the extent of the wave, if it's really going that far then our ideas for an FSA or a Republic of Texas are completely shot. A huge portion of the south gets destroyed by the tidal waves and with it a large portion of the eastern army. With things that bad, might Sherman just take the most vital people he can and go south? Maybe military and some people with farming and manufacturing knowledge? Maybe the flee towards Oklahoma/Northern Texas or do they just head to California via the one railroad route?
Another question is: How badly is Mexico going to be affected if there are tidal waves in the Gulf? Profirio Diaz's hold on the country is already loosening but if there's massive death because of a tidal wave(especially if he's caught in it or many of his supporters are) Mexico's going to be a powder keg. Maybe Sherman and his chosen few flee down there, ally with anti-Diaz Mexicans and become part of a new Mexican state? Once they reestablish contact with Grant and California the two nations unite into a United States of Mexico?
Revisiting an old idea a little, but I'm not talking full-on conquest of Mexico by Union refugees. I'm talking about Yankee refugees being used as a weapon by Mexicans against Diaz and willingly becoming part of the new nation, an influential group with a large percentage in the military but still a minority and not holding the reigns of power. Eventually, the Amexicans push for union with California which has its own large hispanic and yankee populations and creates a full-fledged USM. Shermanistas fighting Diaz?
Maybe I am confusing dates, but in 1878, Díaz's rule over Mexico was strong. He had appointed himself president two years before and he had been pacifing the country, eliminating his adversaries. At this time Mexico is more stable than it had been in decades. So even with anti-Díaz mexicans around, they're not what they would be at the start of the 20th century.
I thought someone said that there was already anti-Diaz rebellion going on in Mexico?
I could be wrong of course, but I still think a tidal wave in the gulf might make things go badly for him.I thought someone said that there was already anti-Diaz rebellion going on in Mexico?
Of course, there are still some juaristas and lerdistas out there who will try to take advantage of the disorder created by the tidal wave to rebel against Díaz, but right before the event, Mexico has been mostly pacified.
Its not the explosion that causes the wave height so much as how much is displaces and how much is turned into water vapor on impact. I do not believe its that bad to destroy all of human existance or completely change life on this planet like you think.
Admittedly, my knowledge of Mexican history isn't the best, but wasn't one of the few things Diaz had going for him the investment into Mexico's economy(mainly its upper classes) by europeans? Or am I thinking of somebody else? If that is Diaz, then there's going to be some problems in the next years as Europe's not there and the US is in chaos with refugees trying to enter.
Still, there may be a way to work with that. It might be possible that radical anti-Diaz groups end up attacking/raiding a caravan of refugees and military led by Sherman on its way to California. Perhaps, due to the increasing pressures on his position, Diaz offers citizenship to the Americans and Sherman if they pledge loyalty to his regime? Sherman accepts because of the difficulties getting to California are so great that many with him will die and helps crush resistance to Diaz. Later, the Mexicans and some Americans, particularly Sherman, convince Diaz to step down and hold free elections due to his growing unpopularity?
Probably; even with water displacement factored in. But then again having a mega tsunami go all the way to Appalachians, doesn't mean it goes all the way to the Appalachians along the entire mountain range, into the gulf along the entirety of the northern gulf coast...
If you look at the images on History/Discovery. Waves bounce, go up rivers, believe it or not, and curve as they hit other obsticales such as islands. The sumatra tsunami went through the Indian ocean around Cape Horn in South America to the Atlantic Ocean and into the Persian Gulf and around Cape Town South Africa. So I can see this tsunami going around the Appalachian mountains and into the Delta region as well as the Gulf.
An interesting article. Here's a good excerpt if you don't want to read the whole article by the University of California:
So...where did that asteroid hit in the Atlantic? How big was it?
If the thing is as big as the one presented in this simulation but hit closer to Europe you'd see a lot less higher waves in NA, etc.
I'd argue that if a rock that big smacked into the Earth the humans that would be left, if there were any, are going to be few and far between. They are certainly not going to be around with much civilization.
UC said:
So...where did that asteroid hit in the Atlantic? How big was it?
If the thing is as big as the one presented in this simulation but hit closer to Europe you'd see a lot less higher waves in NA, etc.
I'd argue that if a rock that big smacked into the Earth the humans that would be left, if there were any, are going to be few and far between. They are certainly not going to be around with much civilization.
It hit water, though...
There's no dust (there is water vapour, but that's not quite the same...)
I don't want to make too many twisty redirects and turns, but just one more therad-hop:
Damage Speculation
Damage Speculation
It's not the volume of the rock, it's the kinetic energy. e.g. total mass times 1/2 the square of the incoming velocity. The composition of the bolide and angle of entry will have an effect as well. Dr. Jerry Pornelle in his novel Lucifer's Hammer (1970's) went into the global effects of a collision with a Halley-sized comet. Interestingly, he had a cannibalism-based religion in parts of California as an after-effect. Maybe thats where Stirling got his idea for Russia. IIRC his comet hit in the Pacific, with a tsunami that took out the California coast.
Stratego's Risk, "I think what we can do is treat the damages described in the book as canon, except maybe rectifying some more ASB portions like the damage done to the Gulf Stream We can use Stirling's statements to clarify and interpret the book. I would call that canon, but this is more like the Qur'an and the Hadith, actually."
Thanks for finding Stirling's old posts. Just to keep things interesting, could we think in terms of the least damaged North America that complies with the Canon? Otherwise we wind up with a discussion sort of like "Its 300 years after the Third World War And Primitive Tribes Roam the Land" stories that were written in the 1950's and '60s. That doesn't allow much play for non-ASB historical extrapolation. But we do have to fit within Stirlings overall scenario.
Thanks for finding Stirling's old posts. Just to keep things interesting, could we think in terms of the least damaged North America that complies with the Canon? Otherwise we wind up with a discussion sort of like "Its 300 years after the Third World War And Primitive Tribes Roam the Land" stories that were written in the 1950's and '60s. That doesn't allow much play for non-ASB historical extrapolation. But we do have to fit within Stirlings overall scenario.