Peshawar Lancers Redux: Europe

Valdemar II

Banned
In coastal North Europe a culture I'm going to call the Fisherman culture for short will grow to dominance. They're descendant of people to stubborn to flee and hardy and isolated enough to survive, these is often fishermens because they got access to a alternative source of food even in the early year after the fall. These people mostly lived along the easten North Sea, along the Baltic sea.and on Iceland.

Religeous they're mostly Lutheran, but they are even more harsh and dark than usual, they forbids dancing, music, singing and jewellery, they value hard work and is all in all a very serious people, their humour is dark, and their priests preach hellfire, and see the Fall as a second flood, to destroy the Gomorrah and Dodoma which were pre-Fall life. They have little tolerance for dissent (especially religeous) and individualism. While the Fishermens original was fishermens most of them have become farmers quite early on, and they both live along coasts and away from the coast

Political they have direct democracy (only men can vote), through with the local priests serving as arbiter and judge. Polits is usual Cantons with a few thousands inhabitans, but they usual member or subjects to bigger confederations. City exist and its inhabitants is more liberal than their rural cousins, but it's a rare city with more than 10000 inhabitants, likely only Copenhagen, Lübeck and Hamburg is bigger with around 20-30 thousand inhabitants.

Linguistic they speak several language, but the most common is German and Scandinavian dialects, with a few of them speaking Finno-Ugriric and Baltic, a quite small minority also speak English and Slavic deride languages. Interesting the Finno-Ugriric Cours have had something of a renaisance and dominates the West Latvian and Lithuanian coast, while the Estonians and Finns has lost both their Westen Coasts to Swedish speakers. Frisian will also make a amazing comeback and will likely become the common language from Ribe to Antwerden with the exception of the German enclave between Hamburg and Bremen. But language is given little importence in identification, people are first members of their canton, Lutherans second, part of a confederation third and their language is only given distant fourth importence.

By the early 20th century Fishermen settlement have begun to spread to the Easten English coast, through because of the English neo-barbarians, they have had little succes in settling inland. These colonies was mostly subjugated by the Raj when they recolonised the Homeland, through a few is independent in the north.

Technological they have late 19th century agriculture, ships still use sails, the common weapon is the rifle, but they lack large armies and usual based their military forces on militias. Cannons is rare and is usual bought from English, French and German* traders. While a little threat to the Raj, they're a unpleasant enemy to deal with, mostly due to their fatalism, intolerance and pure stubborness, which the Raj learned when they tried to subjugate them in the late 20th century.

*Germans has by the late 20th century come to mean German Catholics, no matter what languages they speak.
 
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I like the idea of a fishing/maritime culture surviving the Fall because they could fish as an alternative to the crops that failed.

However, I don't think Lutherans ever got that grim. Calvinists I could imagine doing that, but not Lutherans.
 

Valdemar II

Banned
I like the idea of a fishing/maritime culture surviving the Fall because they could fish as an alternative to the crops that failed.

However, I don't think Lutherans ever got that grim. Calvinists I could imagine doing that, but not Lutherans.

Several Lutheran organisations do look that way, Inner Mission behave that way seing dancing, drinking and (non-Church) music as wrong, through they have liberalised somewhat, since their founding. Inner Mission is popular among fishing villages, and their Norvegian equalant is even more strict and conservative.
 
How should we go about deciding what goes on in Europe? Anyone still want to work on this?

I'd just like to make a point about the bashing Stirling has received over this. The information in the book is entirely the characters points of view. They also believe their Indo-English is the mother tongue and several other preconceptions I can't remember that well. The point I'm making though is that the last glimpse most people would see of the British Isles during the exodus would be of the desperate poor fighting towards the transport. It would look savage. As for the opening flashback, it's from the Dreamer's POV... her preconceptions would cloud it.

I'd say fisher communities would survive, maybe look to the Scottish Islands and remote settlements for the real population of Britain since they'd keep the technology intact more effectivly.
 
The survival of Spain and Italy in North Africa are likely possibilities.

Undoubtedly, I always imagined it as a polyglot between French, Italian, and Spanish cultures. I always assumed, France's defacto control of the region, combined with local military superiority allowed them to dictate the terms of settlement towards its Catholic peers.
 
Hey, I recently posted this on the peshawar lancers NA thread as an attempt to have a Spanish Government in exile in the carribean. Since it starts in europe it seemed a good idea to post it on this thread too to get the european redux take on it. Sorry if ithe writing is a bit stilted, I handwrote this in Math class.


December 5, 1879

Snow crunched under Alfonso XII's boots and he paused to examine the sandy soil barely visible beneath the thin layer of white. "Mi rei, vamos!" The young soldier, not yet shaving regularly, urged on his sovereign. My King, you must go! Strange the twenty-three year old monarch mused. It was not even the soil of Spain yet he was so reluctant to leave it behind. At first the Fall had seemed a boon. Portugal was shattered and France, for all his ties to old Gaul, was no better off. When the French began to seize Spanish ships his generals counseled war, a nation that could not feed itself was no threat and he could not allow a foreign nation to dictate. But then it became clear that this was more than just an unusually severe winter. Snow and ice respect no national boundaries and even now the cloud kept the sun from Spanish cropland. When starving citizens rioted in Madrid he had reluctantly moved the capital, first to Grenada, then Cadiz. Only six months ago with the urging of his prime minister Antonio Cánovas had Alfonso given in and moved the government to Mellila. But it was not enough. When it began to snow in Morocco the Mohammedans had revolted at the sign from Allah. Then French soldiers, continuing the war he had been so foolish to start invaded and he barely made it out of Mellila with only a handful of ministers. His wife María was dead of the tuberculosis the had broken out among the refugees and it seemed that his world was falling apart. Several of his cousins awaited him in Cuba, the ruined island was at least habitable. Governor General Martínez Campos had brokered a peace with the war weary and now inundated rebels, who had suffered just as greatly from the Wave, and now held onto some scraps of authority in the small town of Fernandina de Jagua. That was where this ship, waiting at a makeshift dock in the shattered port of Rabat, would take him. To Alfonso it felt like the final admission of defeat. The ships had already brought out 100,000 refugees, a bare fraction of his subjects to the battered islands of Cuba and Puerto Rico, and this was to be the last ship. Behind him the sound of shouts and gunfire echoed across Rabat as the army fought a desperate rearguard action to buy him time to flee. For it was fleeing and no words could make it otherwise. The King of Spain turned back to his escort, "Soy prepardo." I am prepared. Alfonso XII looked back at the Old World for the last time then hurried on.

So realistic or not? What do I have to do to make this happen?
 
Yes but I was hoping to get someone else's take in addition to yours. I thought maybe the Europe redux might people might have some other suggestions.
It's a imaginative idea:), but taking into account Shadow Knight's take (Cuba will be too damaged for a resettlement, but it might serve as an outpost), it might be better to keep Spain based in Morocco, but with holdings in Spain and Portugal, or alternatively, a travel to the Philippines, but that would be more difficult given the distance.
 
How about instead of him escaping, he hides in a deserted area of morocco, slowly biding his time with loyal soldiers?
 
Regarding French forces in North Africa I would tend to doubt that the FFL would devolve into bandits. The French had established themselves in Algeria as early as 1820 and by the time of the disaster they would be well established with fortifications and colonial settlements with people from France. It is likely that while contact with France may be briefly broken it could be re-established and the French Governor-general could keep the colony going. Expansion into Morocco would be questionable since so many resources would have been lost in the disaster.

It is highly likely that the French Government would become far more authoritarian and would conscript large amounts of the population into the military to deal with the disaster. One might see The Man on the White Horse rising to power as a result of the disaster.
 
Just for reference here is the two places in Europe where the two pieces of the comet hit (the largest chunk hit in Russia and one of the smaller remaining three large chunks hit in France):

PL Redux 1878.gif
 
Okay so in this thread we have the:

* HRE-in-the-Balkans idea

* the Fisherman culture in Northern Europe (immense props to Valdemar II for coming up with all of it himself, I'm thinking they may serve as a contrast to the HRE; they're a bunch of Germanics who stayed home instead of the fleeing hoity-toits. Maybe a bit of a neo-Hanseatic League flavor to them?)

* Republicans in control of Spain while the monarchy has fled to Cuba (courtesy of Ephraim Ben Raphael, a good effort but we're still discussing about the destination for the gov't-in-exile I think)

Still to consider:

Italy (would likely survive much better without an unrealistic super-Caliphate present, though I wonder if they will suffer any pirate raids and some minor incursions from enterprising North Africans?)

Metropolitan France (are we having it die off en masse a la the book and relocate to the Outremer?)

Benelux (In the book the Dutch pulled a Raj/Outremer and relocated themselves all the way in Batavia. Guess the cannibal hordes were that scary.)

Switzerland (maybe they burrow into their mountain caves and become literal gnomes. morlocks! Because even as we're making this more realistic we've got to have some pulp going on.)

Scandinavia (All dead.)
 
Okay so in this thread we have the:

*HRE in the Balkans
Which may need to undergo a few revisions depending on how everything else shapes up. The MidEast thread has the OE possibly retaining Anatolia and part of its European territories(I'm not too sure about the latter) and a more SW focused Russia and now we might have a more surviving Italian states(see below) so we need to figure out a definitive region for it. My guess would be the Hungary/Yugoslavia area and western Romania and Bulgaria, possibly reaching down south towards Greece(although that I'm not sure of) and NE Italy. Anyone want to take a shot at the reach of their territory?

Italy (would likely survive much better without an unrealistic super-Caliphate present, though I wonder if they will suffer any pirate raids and some minor incursions from enterprising North Africans?)
Yeah, even though the MidEast is getting some serious new ideas in the other thread, I think everyone can agree that Italy's got a good chance of surviving. My personal gues would be it's focused on the Southern end of the peninsula and Sicily. In fact, speaking of Sicily what's the chances that the Mafia families start taking advantage of the Fall?;)

Metropolitan France (are we having it die off en masse a la the book and relocate to the Outremer?)
Obviously there's probably going to be neo-tribes/clans/small nations that take over afterwards, but I think most will be fleeing to Algeria or dying off.

Benelux (In the book the Dutch pulled a Raj/Outremer and relocated themselves all the way in Batavia. Guess the cannibal hordes were that scary.)
I don't really know the specifics of this and whether it's realistic or not, anyone else got something here?

Switzerland (maybe they burrow into their mountain caves and become literal gnomes. morlocks! Because even as we're making this more realistic we've got to have some pulp going on.)
Literal dwarves, heh.:p

Seriously though, I would expect some serious problems for Switzerland as the winters start, and I just can't see much surviving in that kind of elevation once things get really bad. Many will probably come down from the Alps towards Northern Italy(eg Venice). In fact, they may be a possible component of why German is the major language and culture of the HRE as they mingle with the Italians.

Of course, those that remain forming an inner mountain dwelling culture does have appeal.

Scandinavia (All dead.)
Unless we go with the Merchant Marine evacuation idea...
 
Okay so in this thread we have the:

* HRE-in-the-Balkans idea

* the Fisherman culture in Northern Europe (immense props to Valdemar II for coming up with all of it himself, I'm thinking they may serve as a contrast to the HRE; they're a bunch of Germanics who stayed home instead of the fleeing hoity-toits. Maybe a bit of a neo-Hanseatic League flavor to them?)

* Republicans in control of Spain while the monarchy has fled to Cuba (courtesy of Ephraim Ben Raphael, a good effort but we're still discussing about the destination for the gov't-in-exile I think)

To the first I postulate that it would be centered on the Yugoslavia region. Perhaps stretching from southern Austria (but claiming further north) down into Albania then east as far as Transylvania and west at least as far as Istria (perhaps the fleeing Germans come to dominate Northern Italy).

To the second I like the idea of the fisherman culture/eventual Hanseatic League type city-states. It would be dominated by northern Germans, what remains of the Danes and other Scandinavians that survived the Fall and live along the coasts (the interior of Scandinavia will likely fall to neo-barbarism).

As to the last if we accept a Republican Spain then having the king flee to Cuba makes some sense...I'd imagine that if he got word as to how bad Cuba was he'd send some settlers as he could, but would personally go to the Philippines. Just MHO of course.
Still to consider:

Italy (would likely survive much better without an unrealistic super-Caliphate present, though I wonder if they will suffer any pirate raids and some minor incursions from enterprising North Africans?)

Some sort of Italy would. In fact with the long coast lines (i.e. plenty of fish, etc.) and the fertile fields of Sicily/Southern Italy it might give them a chance to be some kind of bread basket of the Med.

Personally as I stated above I think Northern Italy is going to be overrun by Germans fleeing south.

Metropolitan France (are we having it die off en masse a la the book and relocate to the Outremer?)

Definitely lots of death in France, but not total die off. I'd expect France to migrate as much as they could to the southern coast of the Med. and across the sea to Algeria and Tunisia (maybe as far east as Tripolitania) with constant fighting with Morocco on how far west they control. I'd also expect the struggles in North Africa to be bloody, merciless, and for all purpose genocide. Not going to be pretty but well...when people get desperate... :|

As to Outremer...wouldn't make sense given what we've discussed in the ME thread. I guess you could have something centered around Beirut (Meronite Christians being there), but I think France is going to be avoiding that mess with their other problems being present.

Benelux (In the book the Dutch pulled a Raj/Outremer and relocated themselves all the way in Batavia. Guess the cannibal hordes were that scary.)

As for the Benelux nations. Belgians and Luxembourgers are going to be fleeing south alongside their French and German neighbors (and end up being absorbed into whatever different population groups they end up with). A few might flee on ships with the Dutch and English neighbors.

The Dutch after taking into account any damage from flooding I could see doing some kind of evacuation to Batavia and other Dutch possessions not ravaged by the Fall.

Switzerland (maybe they burrow into their mountain caves and become literal gnomes. morlocks! Because even as we're making this more realistic we've got to have some pulp going on.)

Population die off of course, but hunkering down would be a Swiss trait. However they are going to have refugee problems unless they just shoot anyone who dares cross their border.

An eventual subterranean society developing...maybe where they only go above to tend to flock, gardens, fields, etc. and live below in great underground complexes built and improved upon over the decades.

Scandinavia (All dead.)

Not all dead. Massive population die off with coastal enclaves (part of the eventual fisher societies I'd imagine) clinging on. The Sami tribes would move south and a few people would likely be absorbed into these tribes, but expect neo-barbarism in the interior.

IIRC Norway had a large merchant marine which might survive somewhat intact. So who wants to see a Norway in exile (neo-Vikings!) displaced somewhere else (South America or Africa)?
 
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