Peshawar Lancers Redux: Damage of the Fall

Hypothesize here, people.

One useful way is to search for S.M. Stirling's own quotes on SHWI about details of the Fall. Some quick searches by me yielded the following statements, which are probably the tip of the iceberg in terms of the material on that group-

S.M. Stirling said:
What happens is that a spray of comets hits the Earth in October of 1878. They
come in east-to-west at shallow angles, starting roughly around the middle
Volga.
There are impacts across Europe, many in the 300 megatonne range, then one
bigger one in the western Atlantic, which sends horrific tsunamis bouncing
across the Atlantic basin and interrupts the Gulf Stream for several years.
(Due to the extensive shallow continental shelf, the tsunamis aren't _quite_ as
bad in northern Europe, and Ireland shields Britain to some extent.)
There are then many more impacts across the US; and the tsunamis are very bad
all along the East Coast.
For three years after the impacts, the northerly portions of the Northern
Hemisphere have at least some sub-zero weather in every month of the year.
Agriculture is impossible in most of Europe and North America for this period.
By the time the weather returns to more-or-less normal, the worst affected
areas have suffered catastrophic die-off and have no basis for recovery; no
seed grain, working livestock, etc. Plus the effects of chaotic social
breakdown.
More southerly areas are also affected, tho' less severely.
The British get early warning of what's coming (from a committee of scientists
who get to Disraeli, who listens closely) and organize a mass exodus to the
Cape, India (where the Royal family and government end up) and Australia.
-- S.M. Stirling

Feb 2003 said:
-- the impacts move from east to west, and the biggest hits in the western
Atlantic.
That wrecks the east coast of North America; the wave crests are high enough to
slop over the Appalachians in some spots.
A smaller but still large strike in the Gulf of Mexico sends an enormous
tsunami up the lower Mississippi valley and along the Gulf Coast. (There's
another biggie in the Great Lakes).
There are American ships at sea, but there's nothing on the east coast for them
to return to except mud and debris. The tsunamis on the west coast are
smaller, but still nothing to sneeze at, and in any case that's a long way
away.
On the other side of the Atlantic, the extensive shallow bed of the North Sea
robs the tsunamis of their full force, while Ireland shields Britain, and the
British Isles give some protection to the area immediately east. The eastern
coastline of Britain is uniquely favored.

And there's more words from the author himself from where that came from.

I typed up the appendices from the book. I'll repost them here this weekend, hopefully.

I think what we can do is treat the damages described in the book as canon, except maybe rectifying some more ASB portions like the damage done to the Gulf Stream We can use Stirling's statements to clarify and interpret the book. I would call that canon, but this is more like the Qur'an and the Hadith, actually.
 
Strategos' Risk,

Thank you for all that. It must have been quite a bit of work. Sadly, those quotes raise more questions than they answer.

Look at the February 2003 comments for example where he mentions that the tsunamis on the west coast are smaller.... Tsunamis on the west coast of North America?

Has anyone ever read anything in his books or comments suggesting that meteor fragments impacted the Pacific? Anyone? Bueller?

So just where did these tsunamis come from then?

I think the efforts here to make the Peshawar Lancers setting more plausible or realistic is an admirable one and one doomed to failure. As with his other books and series, Stirling applied just enough research to produce a good adventure yarn with little or no nods towards plausibility. He's simply slapped things together to produce what he needs, there's no need for internal consistency or any desire to create it.

The reason Europe is full of cannibals, North and South America are inconsequential, Russians are satanists, Japan swallowed China, and all the rest are as they are is not because those are the logical or plausible outcome of his meteor impacts but because that's the background he needs and wants to write his books in.

Trying to impose order or plausibility where none existed to begin with is futile.


Bill
 
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Strategos' Risk,

Thank you for all that. It must have been quite a bit of work. Sadly, those quotes raise more questions than they answer.

Look at the February 2003 comments for example where he mentions that the tsunamis on the west coast are smaller.... Tsunamis on the west coast of North America?

Has anyone ever read anything in his books or comments suggesting that meteor fragments impacted the Pacific? Anyone? Bueller?

So just where did these tsunamis come from then?

I think the efforts here to make the Peshawar Lancers setting more plausible or realistic is an admirable one and one doomed to failure. As with his other books and series, Stirling applied just enough research to produce a good adventure yarn with little or no nods towards plausibility. He's simply slapped things together to produce what he needs, there's no need for internal consistency or any desire to create it.

The Europe is full of cannibals, North and South America are inconsequential, Russians are satanists, Japan swallowed China, and all the rest not because that is the logical or plausible outcome of his meteor impacts but because that's the background he needs and wants to write his books in.

Trying to impose order or plausibility where none existed to begin with is futile.


Bill
I'm kind of agreeing with you about Stirling's attempts at plausibility. OTOH, that's why I think we should do some form of redux of it here on AH.com. We are actually trying for plausibility, and if he's claimingthat the asian side of the pacific wasn't harmed by any tsunamis, then there clearly should have been no meteor fragments there. I.e.no tidal waves are hitting California.

It's clear we can't trust Stirling's exact specifications, so we focus on the main point: Northern hemisphere suffers from tidal waves and dust in the air causes terrible winters that force many in Europe and North America to flee south to colonies or other nations and form hybrid cultures.
 
Strategos' Risk,

Thank you for all that. It must have been quite a bit of work. Sadly, those quotes raise more questions than they answer.

Bill

Nope. I just typed "Peshawar lancers Appalachians" into SHWI and picked two random results that seemed informational. Like I said, this is the tip of the iceberg, Stirling was actually quite active on the board in hammering out the book before he actually wrote it. It'll take more datamining to determine what exactly he meant and what his thought processes were.

I don't think we should spend too much time researching on SHWI, but I really didn't spend that much time collecting data yet. Maybe an hour or two will be enough to exhaust the supply of useful info on that discussion group.

It's clear we can't trust Stirling's exact specifications, so we focus on the main point: Northern hemisphere suffers from tidal waves and dust in the air causes terrible winters that force many in Europe and North America to flee south to colonies or other nations and form hybrid cultures.

Definitely. What I think we can do is come up with a mostly agreed-upon description of how much damage the Fall did, then use that to base our redux project. Not that it would nullify any, or at least not all, of the speculation we've done so far.
 
Does the disaster in our revamped version have to be quite as bad as the original?
Yes, yes it does. The problem is some inconsistency with Stirling's "vision". There's supposedly no meteor hits in the pacific(hence why Japan does so well and the Raj goes there) yet there's tidal waves hitting California?:rolleyes:

Methinks Stirling just wanted to kill off all chances of a US successor state emerging, without any real thought to that specific idea.
 
Appendix One: The Fall

On October 3, 1878, the first of a series of high-velocity heavenly bodies struck the earth. The impacts continued for the next twelve hours, moving in a band from east to west and impacting at shallow angles. The scanty and confused records meant that it was never possible to determine the exact nature of the object or objects; the consensus of Imperial scholars a century and a half later was that the Fall was either a spray of comets or a smaller number of large comets (possibly only one) that broke up in the Earth’s atmosphere.

The first impact was close to the southern edge of Moscow; later studies by Imperial scholars examining the crater indicated an energy release in the 300 megaton range. A band of further impacts of 100 to 300 megatons swept across Europe, the last striking 50 miles west and slightly south of Paris. Strikes were recorded as far north as the Baltic, and the southernmost fell at the head of the Adriatic; that was, however, the only impact south of the Alps.

The next impact was the largest of all, apparently in the western Atlantic, and the body involved may have been up to a kilometer in diameter. Further large fragments fell all across North America, in a rather wider band than in Europe and as far west as the Rocky Mountains.

Blast damage from strikes on land was the first and most obvious consequence; millions probably died in the immediate aftermath.

Hours to days later, tsunamis struck the coasts of countries all around the North Atlantic Basin. These were most severe along the Atlantic coast of North America, with wave fronts reaching as far inland as the Appalachians in some places. In Europe, Ireland, coastal Scandinavia, and much of the Atlantic coast of France and Spain were wrecked, with loss of life in the tens of millions; the destruction would have been even worse, had not the shallow bed of the North Sea robbed the monster wavers of some of their force. The “shadow” of Ireland protected much of western England, and the British Isles as a whole had a similar effect on northern France, Belgium, and the Netherlands.

The impacts- particularly the water strike- released enormous amounts of particulate matter and water into the upper atmosphere. The Gulf Stream was also disrupted for several years, and did not fully resume for a decade.

The climatic effects were drastic and immediate. With insolation reduced by 10 percent on more, winter was exceptionally severe throughout the northern hemisphere, and the southern-hemisphere summer was relatively cool and damp. In Europe, where the warming effect of the Gulf Stream was so important-England is as far north as Labrador, one should remember- the cold season was more than Siberian in its harshness and lasted into April.

Recovery might have been possible, despite the enormous loss of life and destruction of infrastructure, had the next summer been even remotely normal. But it was not. The combination of reduced sunlight and loss of the Gulf Stream made the “warm” season colder and wetter than anything in recorded history throughout Europe, with killing frost in at least a few days of every month as far south as Naples. The following winter was almost as severe as that of 1878, as were those of 1880 and 1881. The summers showed some improvements, but not enough for any appreciable agricultural yield; and there were no sources of imported food available.

By late 1879, with starvation universal, order had broken down throughout northern and central Europe. Mass migrations southward were attempted, but the bulk of the northern Mediterranean shore was only marginally better off in terms of climate, and no better off in terms of food supply when the remnants of the starving hordes arrived. Populations crashed, with only a few small enclaves holding out on the Mediterranean shore. Elsewhere, the only survivors were the most successful cannibal bands.

Even when the climate warmed enough to make agriculture possible again, neither seed grain nor working stock nor tools were usually available; and the remaining population huddled in tiny groups, hiding from and hunting each other in a grisly game of stalking and eating. By 1890, the total population of mainland Europe west of the Urals had fallen to a few million. Here and there tiny hamlets were making attempts to restart farming, but on a level barely Neolithic except for materials salvaged from pre-Fall settlements. Throughout the continent, the forest began its reconquest of the landscape.

North America followed a basically similar trajectory, with patches of settled life surviving along the Gulf Coast. The eastern seaboard remained almost clear of human life for generations; on the interior plains there were small farming enclaves toward the east, with nomad hunters and hordes (white, Amerind, and mixed) farther south and west, and a remnant of the Mormons in Utah. Most of the land swiftly reverted to wilderness, and the population was reduced below the levels of 1600.

California suffered less climatically, although the cold and increased rainfall did drastically reduce yields. Attempts to evacuate population from farther east resulted in an impossible overburdening of its resources- a tragic consequence of the survival of the transcontinental railways- and ultimately a number of regressed city-states emerged.

Most of the rest of the northern hemisphere suffered several years of weather wild enough to reduce crop yields by at least 50 percent, with gradual amelioration from 1881 on and more or less normal weather returning by the 1890s. Effects were strongest to the north, tapering off toward the tropics. Mathematically, it might have been possible for a third to a half of the population of, say, northern China to survive; but when it became apparent that massive famine was inevitable, “secondary effects” -chaos, banditry, civil and regional wars- set in, as struggles over the meager yields of food broke out.

These in turn drove farmers off their land, and resulted in the destruction of seed supplies, livestock, and irrigation and distribution systems. The result was catastrophic dieback in the areas south of the worst-hit zone, limited only by comparison to events in Europe; although there was no absolute break in the continuity of agriculture, population declines of up to 80 percent were common in a broad zone that included much of East Asia and the lands between Mexico and northern Brazil. The halting of world trade, and the loss of the only technologically developed part of the world, exaggerated the “crash” to preindustrial, and in some cases prehistoric, levels.

Meanwhile, the southern hemisphere- subequatorial Africa, the southern cone of South America, Australasia, much of Indonesia- were spared the worst effects. Temperatures dropped, but generally not enough seriously to depress crop yields. Floods were a serious problem, but greater rainfall in arid areas actually increased their carrying capacity for most of the post-Fall decade.
 
Has it occurred to you guys that when Stirling says 'West Coast' He is not in fact referring to the West coast of the United States, but the West "coast" as in it hit the "east coast" of America?

(I hate those terms)
 
long snip
Wasn't it already discussed that with the kind of freezing that Stirling describes that the transcontinental railroad would be unusable through the rockies? I'm sure we deduced that somewhere along the line.

Still, this seems to fit relatively well with the idea of a surviving California if the transcontinental railroad doesn't work. and he does mention some sort of surviving civilizations on the Gulf Coast, so Texas and the FSA are workable in extremely reduced forms.

As for Europe, I doubt it's going down to neolithic levels and, as was quickly figured out, the gulf stream is going nowhere. That means that the cold is significantly reduced towards most of Europe, though Northern Europe is definitely screwed.

I had not thought about the effects on Latin America, but from the looks of it, things are even worse there than North America. I think though, that their largely preindustrial society may be quicker to adapt to the new situation immediately post-fall. Mexico's in deep shit in some areas though.
 
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