Personification of Surviving Kingdom of France

Philip

Donor
Ultimately, though in a surviving French monarchy the personification of France would be whoever the then King was (or if a historical figure is needed Henri IV or St.Louis).

I don't think this is self-evident. The UK has long had both Britannia and John Bull.
 

BP Booker

Banned
As people have already said in this thread, Joan d'Arc serves perfectly as a symbol of French liberty over foreign domination, as well as a symbol of France as a Catholic nation (which is something a Bourbon monarchy would like to emphasize), and her humble origins and rise the greatness. "Joan leading the defense of Paris in the Great War" would be a great propaganda piece. And there is that great staue of her outside the Palce des Pyramides. She also existed, so thats gotta count for something.

This is something I was thinking about, about a possible Bourbon-Orleanist restoration in 1871 in France. Marriane really became symbolic during the Third Republic but before that nations had been personified as a fair lady: America had Columbia, Britain had Britannia and Bavaria had, well, Bavaria - And there had been some male personifications too: John Bull, Uncle Sam (And a Johny and Billy during the Civil War), Deutscher Michel, Zé Povinho, El Roto and Srulik; so I wonder if down the line, lacking Marianne, a male personification would have emerged. Something like Poilu (or "Adrian" like the helmet), always next to Joan
 
As people have already said in this thread, Joan d'Arc serves perfectly as a symbol of French liberty over foreign domination, as well as a symbol of France as a Catholic nation (which is something a Bourbon monarchy would like to emphasize), and her humble origins and rise the greatness. "Joan leading the defense of Paris in the Great War" would be a great propaganda piece. And there is that great staue of her outside the Palce des Pyramides. She also existed, so thats gotta count for something.

This is something I was thinking about, about a possible Bourbon-Orleanist restoration in 1871 in France. Marriane really became symbolic during the Third Republic but before that nations had been personified as a fair lady: America had Columbia, Britain had Britannia and Bavaria had, well, Bavaria - And there had been some male personifications too: John Bull, Uncle Sam (And a Johny and Billy during the Civil War), Deutscher Michel, Zé Povinho, El Roto and Srulik; so I wonder if down the line, lacking Marianne, a male personification would have emerged. Something like Poilu (or "Adrian" like the helmet), always next to Joan

You forgot to mention her:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italia_turrita
 
I imagine that Jean D'Arc, or a figure resembling her is certainly the most likely candidate. A Legitimist absolute monarchy would probably be very inclined to assert their connection to French history and tradition as well as the Church as Jean D'Arc is certainly the obvious candidate. Frankly, in my mind Jean D'Arc is who I think of when I think of France. If had any drawing skills and was going to draw a personification of France, they would look like Jean D'Arc.
 
She was a really minor figure in the XVIIIth century : a good part of her popularity in France came from the mid-to-late XIXth century where the need of a personality on which all could agree (conservative because of her history, nationalists because of her role, republican by patriotism, social-republican because of her origins, socialists because thinking things thorough is hard) especially after the firm establishment of the IIIrd Republic.

Not necessarily, there was a sizable body of literature dedicated to her by the time of the French Revolution. She appears in Henry VI by William Shakespeare and is the subject of ridicule in one of Voltaire's poems. But it definitely would be more of a "maybe they will, maybe they won't" sort of deal for adopting her as a symbol, because obviously there will seem to be less need for reconciliation of the factions.
 
I imagine that Jean D'Arc, or a figure resembling her is certainly the most likely candidate. A Legitimist absolute monarchy would probably be very inclined to assert their connection to French history and tradition as well as the Church as Jean D'Arc is certainly the obvious candidate. Frankly, in my mind Jean D'Arc is who I think of when I think of France. If had any drawing skills and was going to draw a personification of France, they would look like Jean D'Arc.

Jeanne please, not Jean.
 
Nobody seems to have mentioned the oldest symbol of France dating back to antiquity yet, the Gallic rooster. In Latin the term gallus BTW means both a Gaul and a rooster.

923px-Grille_du_Coq_detail.jpg
 
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Nobody seems to have mentioned the oldest symbol of France dating back to antiquity yet, the Gallic rooster. In Latin the term gallus BTW means both Gaul and rooster.
It was never used as a national symbol before the XIXth (maybe there an there as a totemic symbol, but it's way behind the boar or even other birds in Gallic Antiquity), the good old bad pun being rediscovered in late Middle-Ages in HRE, as it was a good derogatory symbol for France. It had some good fortune in the XVIth (due to his long medieval association with resurrection and Christianism) but again what remained largely a rustic picture gained greatfully in popularity with and after the revolution.
 
I also got confused at first but AFAIK an inhabitant of Gaul is also a Gaul.
That's because English is weird: that's not true in Latin or, for that matter, in French.

Anyway, on the question of the gender of the personification, I have the idea that people would be naturally drawn to female representations if only because in French France is a female noun. It does sound like a completely rubbish justifications though. @LSCatilina, do you think there is any merit to the idea?
 

Philip

Donor
While the Gallic rooster is a good symbol you'll have a hard time making it the personification of France. Unless, of course, yourey doing some strange stuff.

I'm not so sure. I didn't have any trouble saying that France is personified by a gamecock in this illustration:

AN00078427_001_l.jpg


It is a 1782 pre-Revolution depiction (albeit a British depiction) of France as a rooster, and, as @LSCatilina suggested, is used in a derogatory manner. If you prefer, we can use the phrase 'allegorical representation'.
 
I'm not so sure. I didn't have any trouble saying that France is personified by a gamecock in this illustration:

AN00078427_001_l.jpg


It is a 1782 pre-Revolution depiction (albeit a British depiction) of France as a rooster, and, as @LSCatilina suggested, is used in a derogatory manner. If you prefer, we can use the phrase 'allegorical representation'.

I note the "perfidious Gallus". "La perfide Albion" is an old French name for England but I did not know this was reciprocated XD.
 
Je suis desolé. Je ne peux pas parler française tres bien.


While the Gallic rooster is a good symbol you'll have a hard time making it the personification of France. Unless, of course, yourey doing some strange stuff.
All is forgiven.... I'm sure it was just a typo.
 
Anyway, on the question of the gender of the personification, I have the idea that people would be naturally drawn to female representations if only because in French France is a female noun. It does sound like a completely rubbish justifications though. @LSCatilina, do you think there is any merit to the idea?
That's possible, but as well a fairly common genderisation of regions and countries since Romans (Judea/Armenia/Germania... Sarmatica devicta : that said, all of these weren't personified Dacia Capta for instance isn't) and Middle-Ages (whom best example is, IMO, this)
So I'd be tempted to say Brittania is considered feminine less because of gender, rather it's given feminine gender grammatically because it was associated with a female personification. Mostly my two cents on this only, tough, don't quote me there.
 
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