Persistent Slavonic State between Elbe and Oder

I was wondering what it would take that the Slavonic peoples dwelling in today's Eastern Germany, between Elbe and Oder as late as in the 12th century, could establish one or several sovereign states which survive for long; preferrably more sovereign than Bohemia, that is.


My impression is that they were lacking only two items:

  • Christianity: Few of their leaders and hardly any men in the streets converted to Christian religion. This provided the German princes with an excellent pretext for conquest.
  • Unity: The different tribes did not manage to unite and establish an actual state. And when they did so, it was too late and to restricted in extent (Wangria).

Therefore I figure it is not too improbable. Or did I miss an important aspect ?
 

Giladis

Banned
Well first you would need a much weaker eastern frankish empire or even no eastern frankish empire and you would need charlemange to expand less to the east than he did. Maybe focus on conquering Iberian peninsula rather than expanding eastwards.
 
Giladis, why do you think I have to go so far back in time?
I stated that the Polabians and their likes would have to have themselves baptized and sort things out with each other. Then Henry the Lion will still fight them, but he will get less support, and face more tenancious resistance.
Of course he will win some battles and gain some territory, but I am still convinced that then one or several political entities can survive.



(I am trying to build an analogy to Lithuania, which maintained itself by establishing a Christian state modelled on Western examples - in contrast to their Northern and Western neighbors, the Prussians and Livonians and Semigallians, who lost their independence not only for having amber, but also for not converting.)
 

Valdemar II

Banned
The problem are population density, the Vends and other West Slavs to lesser degree, prefered poor sandy soil, while this meant that they could expand fast and even set up shop in low population areas of Germanic states like Lüneburg Heath and Lolland-Falster. It also meant a lower population density and a much lower yield. While the Germans prefered to set up farms in carbon rich soil like swamps and forests, it took longer for Germans to set up farms the yield was much greater and resulted in much more dense populated areas, it also meant that Germans was invited into Slavic lands by the Slavic lords to set up farm in the areas the Slavs didn't use both Pommern and Silesia was Germanified this rather than through conquest. So if the Wends convert early the results are likely the same just faster.
 
(I am trying to build an analogy to Lithuania, which maintained itself by establishing a Christian state modelled on Western examples - in contrast to their Northern and Western neighbors, the Prussians and Livonians and Semigallians, who lost their independence not only for having amber, but also for not converting.)
Lithuania wasn't established as Christian state. When it was Christianized it already had rather long history. This was main difference from Prussians, Livonians etc., which lost independence before establishing state.
 
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