Persian colonial empire

with a pod after 1500 is it realistic and possible for Iran (Persia) to get a colonial empire?

Extra points for a Persian settler colony in australia

Also extra points for a pod late enough in time so that it’s still possible for Reza shah to rise to power.
 
The core of Persian power is and always was the Iranian platue, with her influence and access in the coastal regions limited by the Zagros mountains. Any Persian state that wants to project power into the sea is going to either relocate it's center of gravity south of the range (surrendering it's influence over the north... it's economic and population core) or have a strong sense of security in the North (which lacks a natural geographic "anchor" or stable polities to acheive that goal via diplomacy).
 
The core of Persian power is and always was the Iranian platue, with her influence and access in the coastal regions limited by the Zagros mountains. Any Persian state that wants to project power into the sea is going to either relocate it's center of gravity south of the range (surrendering it's influence over the north... it's economic and population core) or have a strong sense of security in the North (which lacks a natural geographic "anchor" or stable polities to acheive that goal via diplomacy).
Is it possible for them to secure their north and expand south to gain good harbours, would this require an earlier pod?
 
Is it possible for them to secure their north and expand south to gain good harbours, would this require an earlier pod?

It's not a question of POD but one of geography; the coastline of Persia is a thin strip of desert pinned up against a mountain range with little in the way of fresh water rivers and high soil salinity (Thus making it garbage for agriculture and, therefore, any kind of high population density). There's very little in the way of "good harbours", even if the isolation from the highlands and lack of local productivity would give them little motivation or means to develop one. As for the north, in theory it's possible but it's going to be an uphill battle: Centeral Asia is by and large an open steppeland with all the political instability and porious borders nomadic populations tend to produce. Without a major obstacle to those movements to fortify and their northern border being so long, any security is going to be temporary and subject to sudden change as tribes move around and conquer one another.
 
with a pod after 1500 is it realistic and possible for Iran (Persia) to get a colonial empire?

Extra points for a Persian settler colony in australia

Also extra points for a pod late enough in time so that it’s still possible for Reza shah to rise to power.

It is possible. Actually, only Australia is possible in this case... or just maybe South Africa...

Requirements:
- No open hostilities with the Ottoman Empire
- Get rid of the Qizilbash ASAP
- Try to fight the Portuguese on Sea for Naval Experience
- Growing Population


If still Shia: you cannot get Sunni's to settle in Australia so your settler numbers are limited as defense of Persia is also necessary.
 
It is possible. Actually, only Australia is possible in this case... or just maybe South Africa...

Requirements:
- No open hostilities with the Ottoman Empire
- Get rid of the Qizilbash ASAP
- Try to fight the Portuguese on Sea for Naval Experience
- Growing Population


If still Shia: you cannot get Sunni's to settle in Australia so your settler numbers are limited as defense of Persia is also necessary.
Didn’t they fight the Portuguese in Otl? how could I get there population to grow in this era?
 
Have the Safavids be defeated by a Sunni tribe that can gobble up Baluchistan and Central Asia, and you can have Persians colonizing eastern Africa (after eating Oman and Yemen as usual) and have traders in India, Spice Islands, and maybe Eastern Asia.

The reigning dynasty can always choose to deport all the rebellious Shiite minorities in the Zagros mountains to Australia, too....

Would require so many absurd lucks though.
 
Didn’t they fight the Portuguese in Otl? how could I get there population to grow in this era?

They did in the early 17th century.

Population can grow in many ways. Limited number of wars, force tribes to settle in towns, etc. Limiting wars is easy as no power other than the Uzbeks wanted to expand in Persian lands. Keep hostilities low and it might work.
 
Have the Safavids be defeated by a Sunni tribe that can gobble up Baluchistan and Central Asia, and you can have Persians colonizing eastern Africa (after eating Oman and Yemen as usual) and have traders in India, Spice Islands, and maybe Eastern Asia.

The reigning dynasty can always choose to deport all the rebellious Shiite minorities in the Zagros mountains to Australia, too....

Would require so many absurd lucks though.

Killing Ismail before he takes Tabriz won't be hard. But his followers will be a headache. Anyome from the Aq Qoyunlu can consolidate power in Persia. Or easier, Shaybani invades Persia. But Shaybani looks like a man who would not waste time on Naval Expeditions thus killing the idea of this topic.
 
Could OTL Iran or a predecessor of Iran have colonised Madegascar if they had wanted to do so?

If there had been a Iranian settler colony in Australia, who would have stopped them?
 
The Iranians seem to have been the least seafaring of all Muslim powers of the Indian Ocean. They're almost the Persian Gulf equivalent of the Austrians, who failed in all their attempts at establishing colonies except for their extremely small concessions in China which even then were thanks to the British rather than the Austrians themselves. The Iranians needed the help of the East India Company in defeating the Portuguese in the 17th century, for crying out loud, the weakest of the European colonial empires of that time (pretty much an appendage of Spain and Holland during this period). The most I see them achieving is some very small colonies in Madagascar and the Swahili coast and neighbouring strips of land in eastern Africa. They're not reaching Australia at all, much less with how much the Indian Ocean had been pretty much turned into an European lake by the 17th century.
 
with a pod after 1500 is it realistic and possible for Iran (Persia) to get a colonial empire?

Extra points for a Persian settler colony in australia

Also extra points for a pod late enough in time so that it’s still possible for Reza shah to rise to power.
Persia needs to colonize itself first, it's population density was stupid low and much of the populace it did have was nomadic. Having settler colonies will just lower the population density even further which will have adverse effects.
 
What if they build a Great Wall of Persia across Khorasan to try to keep out Central Asian nomads, say, during thr 15th or 16th centuries? Could that give them enough of a stable northern frontier that they could concentrate on developing Fars and Makran?
 
What if they build a Great Wall of Persia across Khorasan to try to keep out Central Asian nomads, say, during thr 15th or 16th centuries? Could that give them enough of a stable northern frontier that they could concentrate on developing Fars and Makran?

And you're getting the labor, material, and money for this wall from... where exactly? The maitence alone would make the high cost,low yeild (and far off) of coastal and naval investment even less plausable
 
Having the world's largest population, biggest economy, and the fact they were piggy backing off centuries of work by regional powers by linking up pre-existing smaller walls had something to do with it.

No chance of finding the requisite money and labor in Safavid Persia?
 
No chance of finding the requisite money and labor in Safavid Persia?

No way in hell could they could dedicate that big a share of the national wealth and manpower without triggering total economic collapse and probably mass starvation, even if you could muster the political power to get your hands on it in the first place.

The Ottomans would find no shortage of support for an invasion if they could promise the removal of such odious taxes and compelled labor. Especially on the western borderlands where the locals aren't seeing the direct benefit.
 
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