Pershing and Centurion in World War II?

Strange, the image wikipedia gives of the supposed T29 is quite different:
T29.Fort_Knox.0007x8yr.jpg
 
Last edited:
Wow, that is one freaky looking tank. The rangefinder on the T29 would have been a real benefit in long range gunnery duels.

One Patton tanker I knew hated that stereo rangefinder, needed constant adjustment.
Until lasers come into play, probably the UK's way of using machine guns for ranging was superior for an actual shooting war.
 
Strange, the image wikipedia gives of the supposed T29 is quite different:

And it was. After destructive test of one turret in live fire tests, they changed the shape and layout for future turrets. First actual T29 turret was cast about a year and a half later, and I believe it was done at a different manufacturer.
 
The hull in the second photo reflects the design doctrine behind the T20-T26 series. That in the first photo reflects some of the earlier engineering doctrines evident in the M4 medium or the M6 heavy tanks. One example is the hull extending above the top of the tracks, related are the hull sponsors hanging over the tracks. Both those items were dropped from US tank design in 1942 after the return of the pair Ordnance Dept engineers in the spring of 1942. Those two Army officers studied hundreds of damaged tanks in Africa and questioned the British extensively on ammunition effects and armor plate and casting resistance. The result was the T20 type hull; as low as practical, thicker armor on the sides than previously thought necessary, curves or slopes everywhere possible on the hull & turret, drive train all in the rear....
 
One Patton tanker I knew hated that stereo rangefinder, needed constant adjustment.
Until lasers come into play, probably the UK's way of using machine guns for ranging was superior for an actual shooting war.

The Isralis found that with the ammunition/gun combinations they used from 1970 the ellipse or ordinate made by the projectile out to 1,200 meters was not enough to justify using the range finder. In situations where seconds counted for achieving first shot/hits they gunners were trained to focus on correct deflection and get rounds down range. They felt the proportion of first hits were higher with this method. They did use ranging fire with a MG where time allowed & at 1,200 meters they would start using the rangefinder, or would use it where time allowed, or where the ammunition used had a more pronounced ellipse & 'drop' from 500 to 1,000 meters significant.

A US tanker who served between 1958 & 1967 told me they had endless trouble with the range finders, until a manufactors team taught them the correct methods for setting, adjusting, and using the RF. When that occured he realized the tank school at Ft Know was badly off in its instruction. He told me the NCOs who returned to Knox for the advanced gunnery course were scolded for doing it wrong and had to learn the "fucked up way" as Ron put it, to pass the course.

The methods and equipment we used in the artillery were different than the tanks & our range finding was at ranges beyond what tanks used. Even on small National Guard camp impact areas I seldom observed a range to target of less than 3,000 meters & 5,000+ was common. In the Mojave Desert observing a target at 10,000 meters range was not uncommon & occasionally we were shooting at ranges beyond 20,000 meters. it was a very different game.
 
Last edited:
While I agree with you on the freaky part, too my knowledge long range gunnery duels didn't happen that often.

Some battles in Russia took place at long ranges ie 1,000 meters and in North Africa tanks were engaged by Anti Tank guns at similar ranges but in Western and Central Europe its rare to find ground that would allow such long ranges. We used to do regular target practice up to 1200 yards and very occasionally up to 2000 yards but shooting at much more than 1000 yards becomes a bit of a lottery without lasers giving you ranging, air temperature and wind speed plus fast electronic computers to do the heavy work. We were told past 800 yards every extra 200 yards would double your chances of missing. At 800 a gunner who couldnt do a 99% first hit ratio would have a tank commanders boot print on the back of his head, at 1200 its a good gunner who can first hit 90% of the time
 
Top