Permanent division between Antony and Octavian, impact on Christianity

Say the Final War of the Roman Republic doesn't happen or ends in the Republic being divided in half between Antony and Octavian

How would this impact the rise of Christianity in the Roman World

Could the Eastern Half adopt Christianity while the Western Half remains pagan
 
Say the Final War of the Roman Republic doesn't happen or ends in the Republic being divided in half between Antony and Octavian

How would this impact the rise of Christianity in the Roman World

Could the Eastern Half adopt Christianity while the Western Half remains pagan

I would not know for how long the West can remain pagan? Christianity will not possibly stop spreading with the divide of the Roman Republic.
 

raharris1973

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Well Antony's half is in the east. Are his officials as keen to carry executions urged by the Sanhedrin as OTL's officials under Tiberius?
 
Say the Final War of the Roman Republic doesn't happen or ends in the Republic being divided in half between Antony and Octavian

How would this impact the rise of Christianity in the Roman World

Could the Eastern Half adopt Christianity while the Western Half remains pagan
The pod is good enough to eliminate Christianity,unless it is actually THE true faith.
 
Seriously doubtful that the Empire would remain divided. Even if Antony and Octavian managed to cooperate, the senate would be furious at the division of "their republic", and eventually one of their descendants would kick off a war to reunify the holdings of Rome (or at least most of them)
 
The major problem there is that in itself, the eastern provinces are extraordinarily wealthy and for them to be de facto separated from the control of Rome would be a vast weakening of Rome that would outrage essentially every up and coming Roman aristocrat or equestrian looking to make their fortune in the east.
 
It's ASB that Christianity comes into existence in this scenario. Assuming no divine intervention Jesus isn't born. You could have something Christian like but it won't be Christianity and otl in the 1st century the idea that Christianity would end up on top seems like a low probability scenario.
 
It's ASB that Christianity comes into existence in this scenario.
Debatable. Actium took place in 30 BC OTL. Unless there are major incidents in Judea, I'm not sure Jesus' birth would be necessarily butterflied away. Sure a lot can happen in 30 years (a bit less even given that it's admitted Jesus was actually born around 6 BC) and the division could still have an impact on the events but I'm not necessarily thinking Christiannity wouldn't come into being.

It's all dependant on how Judea would be impacted by the division and what would follow. Not that I'm sure you can prevent the conflict between Anthony and Octavian.
 
It's ASB that Christianity comes into existence in this scenario. Assuming no divine intervention Jesus isn't born. You could have something Christian like but it won't be Christianity and otl in the 1st century the idea that Christianity would end up on top seems like a low probability scenario.

Respectfully disagree. There’s absolutely no reason to think it would be impossible. Jesus was hardly the only messianic preacher of his era, so even if you don’t believe he is the Son of God, its entirely reasonable for him to have an analogue in a world that diverges from ours a generation prior to his birth.
 
Respectfully disagree. There’s absolutely no reason to think it would be impossible. Jesus was hardly the only messianic preacher of his era, so even if you don’t believe he is the Son of God, its entirely reasonable for him to have an analogue in a world that diverges from ours a generation prior to his birth.

Agreed and agree that there could be an analogue. I think we are disagreeing over sematics. To me close is not close enough.

As for someone born 24 years after a PoD in territory directly effected by the PoD who is a match for someone otl is pretty low. Note that Mary is probably not born yet (she was what, 15-16 when Jesus was born?). Even if you get the parents together, sex on a different day leads to a different kid. Weird changes of circumstances happen to make said kid a different person. I think the odds just are too high. That is a judgement call.
 
Respectfully disagree. There’s absolutely no reason to think it would be impossible. Jesus was hardly the only messianic preacher of his era, so even if you don’t believe he is the Son of God, its entirely reasonable for him to have an analogue in a world that diverges from ours a generation prior to his birth

But even an identical, OTL Jesus can only do so much to influence the religion that follows. There will be councils and synods and debates and persecutions and unless everything falls in a line exactly as OTL through divine guidance the resulting religion could look very different.

To OP's question the bigger answer is that Rome can't be divided long term in this time period. I don't know what the PoD would be to keep civil war from breaking out, but Antony, Hellenistic monarch pretensions aside, is just as much of a Roman as Octavian and even the most permanent division of the empire won't outlive them. Antony's army is Roman and his officer corps is Roman and the center of political power is Rome, not a bunch of Greek client monarchies. Eventually someone has to come out on top.
 
Agreed and agree that there could be an analogue. I think we are disagreeing over sematics. To me close is not close enough.

As for someone born 24 years after a PoD in territory directly effected by the PoD who is a match for someone otl is pretty low. Note that Mary is probably not born yet (she was what, 15-16 when Jesus was born?). Even if you get the parents together, sex on a different day leads to a different kid. Weird changes of circumstances happen to make said kid a different person. I think the odds just are too high. That is a judgement call.

The way I see it: either He is God, in which case, he's both predestined to be born and, quite frankly, it won't matter if his genes are a little different due to random chance, and his mother also has slightly different genes. Or he's not God, in which case, it still doesn't matter. In which case, I still think some Messianic figure is going to have a following that reaches critical mass. I think its reasonable to assume a close analogue to Christianity would arise, and it would likely be called Christianity as it interacts with the Hellenistic world.

But even an identical, OTL Jesus can only do so much to influence the religion that follows. There will be councils and synods and debates and persecutions and unless everything falls in a line exactly as OTL through divine guidance the resulting religion could look very different.

I don't disagree. There's plenty of different sects of Christianity, and different Christological doctrines.
 
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