Penny Flick, Penny Toss - Part 5

DuQuense

Automobles- still a rich mans toy, no taxis to the front, to save Paris.
Airplanes- not near as developed as by even 1914, No Red Baron.
Engines- Still in the Break down every other Mile, No Tanks.
Boer War- Without a Boer War, Britian is still locked in Calvery Mode. Calvery charges at Machine Guns.
Ammonia- There was some speacial process invented in ?1912? without it germany would have had to surender when the Gunpowder [nitrates] ran out.
U- Boats- Same mechanical problems others, 1910-14- did lots for Development, of war potential.
 
Grey Wolf

Grey Wolf

DuQuense said:
Automobles- still a rich mans toy, no taxis to the front, to save Paris.
Airplanes- not near as developed as by even 1914, No Red Baron.
Engines- Still in the Break down every other Mile, No Tanks.
Boer War- Without a Boer War, Britian is still locked in Calvery Mode. Calvery charges at Machine Guns.
Ammonia- There was some speacial process invented in ?1912? without it germany would have had to surender when the Gunpowder [nitrates] ran out.
U- Boats- Same mechanical problems others, 1910-14- did lots for Development, of war potential.
Click to expand...

With regard to this 'Great War' breaking out in 1910 the 'German Empire' is a small and largely second-rate nation. It is smaller than the rest of Germany, smaller I think than the League of the South which includes what we knew as the Prussian Rhineland. Additionally, without Rhineland-Westphalia, Prussia lacks a lot of its industrial base. The German Empire DOES have Saxony, the Saxon Duchies (Thuringia), the Mecklenburgs and Schleswig-Holstein so it does have other areas of heartland (e.g. look at the spread of early automobile companies in OTL and you will see some of these in Saxony and Saxe-Altenburg).

This smaller liberal federal German Empire is going to end up allied to Russia and the United States. It is going to start off very exposed as it has Habsburg Poland cutting it off from its main ally, and has the Franco-Austrian dominated League of the South abutting it within Germany. Add Britain to the mix, and control of the Baltic is going to be contested as well.

Tom's idea that a different Hohenzollern would become emperor has certain attractions but I think that ONLY Prussian arms, maybe popular arms but one way or another centred on Prussia, prevented the total eradication of this political entity and its full carve-up between Austro-French allies. I also envisaged King August I as being a second son with liberal tendencies who more or less seized power in Berlin in order to give the revolution a figurehead and a leader. He probably remains as true as he can to his principles whilst realising that the new political entity has no long-term future without a major ally

Grey Wolf
 
Grey Wolf

Grey Wolf

The Ottoman/Girayli/Turkish Empire is in a serious situation here - however with Greeks, Serbs and Janinans all getting directly involved in Macedonia, I don't think the empire is going to have any choice but to go to war, if that is what it takes to potentially preserve itself. The flashpoint may be between Russia and Austria, but the empire cannot afford to stay neutral when the cost of that will almost certainly be the loss of Macedonia, and maybe Thrace and Bulgaria as well if the situation escalates. The decision to enter war is thwart with difficulties as there is a common border with Russia-in-the-Principalities, so for a comparison one is more looking at the strategic situation there in either the Crimean War, or more likely in 1878 OTL as this was accompanied with other distrubances in the empire's possessions in the Balkans

Of course, the empire at this stage does not own some of the OTL flashpoints, and in fact has not owned them since the 1830s - Bosnia is an independent state under Austrian tutelage, the Sanjak of Novi Pazar is part of Serbia, and Albania is the key heartland of the Kingdom of Janina

In addition, Baghdad is self-governing but once again a vassal, since their saving by Ottoman arms in 1896-98, but Syria, and the rest are all possessions of the independent, long-established and powerful sultanate of Egypt.

Cyprus remains Turkish, whereas the 1906 Cretan Crisis saw self-government granted to the island under Ottoman/Girayli auspices but placing it more firmly in the Greek camp.

The Turkish Empire (for such I feel it would be generally known as, whether this is correct or not) would have a much better navy than in OTL. It would not be counted amongst the first rate powers, but would be a close second (perhaps analogous to OTL's Austria-Hungary in 1914).

The biggest problem for the empire is neither the situation in Macedonia, nor the Russian armies on the Danube, but the Russian fleet - or more especially once war begins the combined Russo-Egyptian fleet as Russia's allies get more firmly involved. Russia has basing rights at some Turkish ports and islands (e.g. Smyrna and Lemnos) and rights of passage through the Straits. Of course, the Turkish government will simply end these - but there may well be Russian warships in Turkish waters, maybe even in the Marmara when this happens.

Addtionally, the empire is going to be faced with the threat of Egyptian forces coming up from the South.

Grey Wolf
 
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Grey Wolf

Grey Wolf

With Austria the one declaring war to make it a general conflict rather than a local one, it is Vienna who need to make the first moves to secure their strategic position

Austrian forces move into Bosnia, and together threaten both Serbia and Montenegro

At sea, the Austrian navy clashes with the Greeks and Russians in the Ionian Sea, and lands reinforcements in Janina who hasten to the Macedonian front

Janina is also defending against renewed Montenegrin attacks from the North, and Greek attacks from the South

The Ottoman/Girayli/Turkish empire deploys the majority of its army along the Danube, with some units sent to Macedonia and others in South-Eastern Anatolia to defend against the Egyptians

Hungary mobilises, as does Poland both in response to their allies' requirements.

Russian armies gather on the Danube, enter Hungary to unite with the Hungarian forces and threaten Austria, and mobilise along the Polish border. In addition there is a need to defend against Sweden just in case, as well as a new offensive in India

With France, Britain and the League of the South mobilising and moving in Austria's defence, a political crisis grips Berlin. It seems obvious that Alliance forces will try to cross German terrritory to get to the Polish border in order to bolster its defence against Russia. In addition, it is clear that France and Austria will take any opportunity to destroy the upstart nation. Against all his better instincts, August I concludes a secret treaty with Russia

British naval forces besiege the Russian client state of Malta, whilst French naval forces unite with Austrian ones off the Western Greek coast

How is this ?

Grey Wolf
 
Grey Wolf

Grey Wolf

Thinking about technology I am sure someone has gotten around to inventing a viable aeroplane but it is probably still in its very first primitive phase

Airships on the other hand may well be booming - Zeppelin was a Bavarian, so since the mid 1890s there has been the whole League of the South (8 independent German nations) open to access. OTL he had airship transport between cities up and running in the first years of the twentieth century (even taking the King of Wurttemburg on a flight) so I see no reason not to have at least this

In addition, both Frenchmen and Brazilians included major airship lumini, and Russia had a lot of aeronauitical geniuses.

Quite possibly the first aeroplane is French (OTL the Voisin brothers may have got there first but later had not the Wrights existed). You could expect South German, Russian, US and possibly British models to be in flight by 1910 in this ATL.

Grey Wolf
 
Grey Wolf

Grey Wolf

Russia has an interesting strategic position. Having the Principalities as protectorates within the empire, having Serbia as a client state, and having Hungary and Montenegro as allies, Russian forces can march across Southern Europe to the Adriatic.

The Austro-Bosnian assault on Serbia from the North threatens this ability, and may well draw off Russian forces who had originally been ear-marked for elsewhere (either the Danube or to fight alongside the Hungarians)

King Louis Philippe III of France is thinking of the broader strategic position - in order to secure Austria's flanks, and to bring French arms against Russia directly, then there is an argument for crossing the German Empire and fighting alongside the Poles. This would also allow French forces to turn South into Hungary and further relieve pressure on the Austrians

Hints of these plans become known in Berlin, and August I decides to act upon the secret treaty with Russia. Against promise of a major Russian offensive against Poland to come to his aid, he mobilises his army for action to prevent the French plans

The Alliance declaration of war includes that of the League of the South. In addition, Britain lands an expeditionary force in Hannover to threaten Germany's Western border

Egyptian troops invade Libya as 1910 passes into 1911

Grey Wolf
 
Grey Wolf

Grey Wolf

ConfederateFly said:
What stance does the U.S. and C.S.A. hve about the conflict?
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All will become clear :)

Basically, the war has started in Europe at the beginning of October 1910, and has data carrying it up to the end of February 1911 - not all posted yet

The USA is an ally of the Russian Empire, but is not required to enter any war that has Europe as its reason

The CSA is an ally of France, and is Alliance-orientated but is even less committed to a European war

I've written a vignette with Prime Minister Lord Randolph Churchill talking to his First Lord of the Admiralty and Foreign Secretary and we get a tiny insight into events in Washington there

The USA has a war party urging entry

The CSA wants to remain neutral, unless it feels it cannot do so due to events in the Americas

Remember Cuba is independent and in the USA's pocket - as are the Philippines, though I may have failed to make that clear till now.

Grey Wolf
 
Grey Wolf

Grey Wolf

1911 January - February

Winter
- no major land offensives within Europe
- Build up of forces

Royal Navy enters the Baltic under Admiral Sir Charles Beresford commanding

Lahore and Mughal forces fully mobilised
Nepal mobilises in self-defence

Egyptian forces strike into Libya in three columns
- along the coast
- trans-desert
- allies from the South

Russo-Turkish naval engagement off Crete
Russian victory
Greek troops landed in Crete (February)

Coup in Tehran places a more ambitious Shah on the Persian throne
Keen to wipe out the memory of the events of 1898
Persia declares war on the Alliance

Grey Wolf
 

DuQuense

Techology Accelerating

My Post 5-6 up was not about Automobles or Planes per se.
Rather to point out that many of OTL's images of WW1 were shaped by techology changes 1910-14.
Without the Artifical Amonnia/Fertilizer process invented in 1912- Used to make nitrates for Explosives- Germany would have been out of the war by 1916. ITTL who will get to Blockade the South American nitrate shippments.
Automobles didn't outnumber horse Carriges till after 1910, No Ambulance trucks, and lots more horse Wagons in this war.
And, airoplanes were still in their Wonder-ing years*
Even more so than Our GW1, this will be the last of the pre-mechianized wars. I would assume [given one happans] the wind up to GW2 will involve even more attemps at Mechinizing the Milatary, no half Horse Wagon/half Trucks for this GW2 invasion of Russia.

*[Wonder if this one will make it off the Ground]
 
Grey Wolf

Grey Wolf

Looking at the strategic situation one could say that the Pacific is going to be open to the Russians, and the Atlantic open to the Alliance

Of course that doesn't tell the whole story, but there is no immediately dominant fleet to cut off trade with South America

The position of the American nations is going to become vital in this

I have created several tables of naval strength, as well as losses and gains since October 1910 to March 1911 but need the time to type them up

Also, a couple of little novelistic vignettes need typing up - when I've worked out who the British First Lord of the Admiralty is

Grey Wolf
 

Tom_B

Religion Card Again

One thing that would be making the alliance of Germany and Russia more likely that it seems at first glance is that you Germany would feel threatened of being encircled by Catholic Powers--France, Austria and Poland. You might accentuate this by have an eccentric Pope that is decidely hostile to Germany (thinks they are run by occult Illuminati lodges)--sort of a SuperDuperKulturkampf but also hostile towards the Orthodox Churches.

What happened to Denmark? If the RN is going through the Belts you want to know what the Danes are thinking.
 
Grey Wolf

Grey Wolf

Tom_B said:
One thing that would be making the alliance of Germany and Russia more likely that it seems at first glance is that you Germany would feel threatened of being encircled by Catholic Powers--France, Austria and Poland. You might accentuate this by have an eccentric Pope that is decidely hostile to Germany (thinks they are run by occult Illuminati lodges)--sort of a SuperDuperKulturkampf but also hostile towards the Orthodox Churches.

What happened to Denmark? If the RN is going through the Belts you want to know what the Danes are thinking.
Click to expand...

Thank you for your comments, valuable as always. The Catholic angle is certainly one that will resonate for the Protestant North, and may also explain why Sweden is reticent about joining the Alliance. Of course, Britain is not Catholic but is probably viewed as a secondary power who is making the Devil's deal in order to survive the Russian threat

I was rather think that the Danes are thinking 'Oh God, not again' and are keeping their heads down. In the 1890s wars in Germany, both France and Austria had squadrons in the Baltic, and in 1896-1898 so did Britain. There is probably agreement that the Kattegat is open to passage in time of war.

Grey Wolf
 
Grey Wolf

Grey Wolf

The Great War of 1910 (PTPF 6)

The Great War of 1910 (PTPF 6) - Part 6 of this ATL now has 19 vignettes covering the war up to May 1911. Next up is a Confederate interlude, once I get the cast of characters sorted

Grey Wolf
 
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