Penny Flick, Penny Toss - Part 4 (alternate 19th century)
- Thread starter Grey Wolf
- Start date
1887 sees the death of King Juan III of Spain. With the withdrawal of French troops from Cuba, the situation there long having simply had a lid on the flames, flares up again. By the time of Juan III's death, the rebellion is only being controlled because the government is able to prevent the truth of the situation from escaping into the Spanish press
Upon Juan III's death, King Carlos VII (born 1848) ascends the Spanish throne.
The French relationship, which had had a large degree of personal bondage between Louis Philippe II and Juan III, becomes cooler, with France focusing on other things. Paris assumes that the relationship with Madrid is fine, that Spain has the situation in Cuba under control and that they can just let things bubble along as they had previously
Things turn out very differently
Grey Wolf
Upon Juan III's death, King Carlos VII (born 1848) ascends the Spanish throne.
The French relationship, which had had a large degree of personal bondage between Louis Philippe II and Juan III, becomes cooler, with France focusing on other things. Paris assumes that the relationship with Madrid is fine, that Spain has the situation in Cuba under control and that they can just let things bubble along as they had previously
Things turn out very differently
Grey Wolf
The Crisis of 1890
Advancing the timeline to 1890, we run into a conglomeration of crises - a coagulation ?
The trigger is the discovery of gold in the Klondike, and the disputed nature of the land between Russian Alaska and British Canada
The tensions and frequent border disputes coalesce into a crisis which cannot be subdued
As Russia moves naval units from Petropavlosk and Vladivostock to Alaskan waters, Russian army units also arrive by transport. American-Russian prospectors band into irregular militia and clash with British Canadian border forces
At the same time, Britain has been increasing its influence amongst states not in the Franco-Austro-Russian camp, establishing close relations with Janina and also with the Two Sicilies and Piedmont-Sardinia in an attempt to deal with the deteriorated situation in the Mediterranean
An upsurge in the Cuban Civil War sees Carlos VII's government totter, and only the involvement of British troops once again in Cuba sees the insurrection halted, and British influence rise in Madrid at the expense of the French.
Grey Wolf
Advancing the timeline to 1890, we run into a conglomeration of crises - a coagulation ?
The trigger is the discovery of gold in the Klondike, and the disputed nature of the land between Russian Alaska and British Canada
The tensions and frequent border disputes coalesce into a crisis which cannot be subdued
As Russia moves naval units from Petropavlosk and Vladivostock to Alaskan waters, Russian army units also arrive by transport. American-Russian prospectors band into irregular militia and clash with British Canadian border forces
At the same time, Britain has been increasing its influence amongst states not in the Franco-Austro-Russian camp, establishing close relations with Janina and also with the Two Sicilies and Piedmont-Sardinia in an attempt to deal with the deteriorated situation in the Mediterranean
An upsurge in the Cuban Civil War sees Carlos VII's government totter, and only the involvement of British troops once again in Cuba sees the insurrection halted, and British influence rise in Madrid at the expense of the French.
Grey Wolf
Other events of 1890 include the death of Willem III of the Netherlands and the accession of his son as Willem IV (born 1840) as King of the Netherlands and Grand Duke of Luxembourg
In Russia, Tsar Aleksandr II is still on the throne, born 1818 and acceded upon the death of his father Nicholas I in 1855. Aleksandr II's heir is Tsesarevitch Nicholas, born 1843 and married to Princess Dagmar of Denmark in 1863. They have six children, including four sons, the oldest of whom, Grand Duke Nicholas was born in 1864 (and is thus aged 26)
- - -
OTL Willem of the Netherlands, Prince of Orange died young in 1879 aged 39
OTL Grand Duke Nicholas died in 1853 shortly before his intended marriage to Princess Dagmar of Denmark, who married his brother the future Aleksandr III after his death
Grey Wolf
In Russia, Tsar Aleksandr II is still on the throne, born 1818 and acceded upon the death of his father Nicholas I in 1855. Aleksandr II's heir is Tsesarevitch Nicholas, born 1843 and married to Princess Dagmar of Denmark in 1863. They have six children, including four sons, the oldest of whom, Grand Duke Nicholas was born in 1864 (and is thus aged 26)
- - -
OTL Willem of the Netherlands, Prince of Orange died young in 1879 aged 39
OTL Grand Duke Nicholas died in 1853 shortly before his intended marriage to Princess Dagmar of Denmark, who married his brother the future Aleksandr III after his death
Grey Wolf
Both Russia and the Netherlands, and to an extent Belgium, are flicking coins tossing coins in their dynastic affairs
The putative Willem IV was in his mid 30s when he died. His father was a sadist and I believe the Prince of Orange had some personal issues. But his dying young was not expected
Nicholas, eldest son of Aleksandr II was in his 20s, engaged to be married and also clearly not expected to die
So, in this ATL they haven't
I've allowed Louis to be proclaimed King of Belgium, diluting Louis Philippe's objections. I've also given him an eldest son of the same name and age - not necessarily likely, but as Rick Robinson once said no less likely than any other ATL alternative, so in this case one might as well run with it
Grey Wolf
The putative Willem IV was in his mid 30s when he died. His father was a sadist and I believe the Prince of Orange had some personal issues. But his dying young was not expected
Nicholas, eldest son of Aleksandr II was in his 20s, engaged to be married and also clearly not expected to die
So, in this ATL they haven't
I've allowed Louis to be proclaimed King of Belgium, diluting Louis Philippe's objections. I've also given him an eldest son of the same name and age - not necessarily likely, but as Rick Robinson once said no less likely than any other ATL alternative, so in this case one might as well run with it
Grey Wolf
Grey Wolf said:
There's no way that Britain, in this position, is going to let itself get dragged into a major war. It would get its ass kicked (so to speak) and simply wouldn't let it come to this.
Given the closer US-Russian co-operation in Alaska I'm of the opinion that the Klondike gold rush WOULD occur some years earlier than in OTL
However, I think I am going to toss one coin back the other way...
Grey Wolf
Hmmmm.....maybe Britain stays out of the war until it seems that they have a shot against Russia and France?
I'm interested to see what you're going to do next.
I'm interested to see what you're going to do next.
It strikes me that the best thing for this ATL is to have a Luxembourg Crisis in 1890, so no Willem IV of the Netherlands but instead the accession of Wilhelmina and the crisis over succession to the Grand Duchy
At this same time, Britain and Russia are on the verge of war over the Klondike but it never quite gets there. It just keeps them both very busy and occupied whilst events in Europe accellerate
Any comments now ?
Grey Wolf
At this same time, Britain and Russia are on the verge of war over the Klondike but it never quite gets there. It just keeps them both very busy and occupied whilst events in Europe accellerate
Any comments now ?
Grey Wolf
Coriolanus said:
Well, I can see a continental war brewing but am not sure yet. If I follow my previous pattern I won't be advancing this ATL much during the week due to pressures of work, but will comment on comments etc in that meantime. Next weekend is probably when things will get moving again
In the meantime, any comments and suggestions would be very welcome
Grey Wolf
I am thinking that the Netherlands tries to hold onto Luxembourg rather than see it united with Nassau
I am thinking that Prussia also doesn't much like the idea of a suddenly more powerful Nassau (Nassau-Luxembourg)
Prussia also has the German Confederation garrison in Luxembourg City
France is in an odd position, partly because of the Austro-French axis and Austria's likely support for Nassau's position
One might see some kind of analogy of the Schleswig-Holstein crisis of OTL (in the ATL S-H became a member of the GC as an independent state)
Grey Wolf
I am thinking that Prussia also doesn't much like the idea of a suddenly more powerful Nassau (Nassau-Luxembourg)
Prussia also has the German Confederation garrison in Luxembourg City
France is in an odd position, partly because of the Austro-French axis and Austria's likely support for Nassau's position
One might see some kind of analogy of the Schleswig-Holstein crisis of OTL (in the ATL S-H became a member of the GC as an independent state)
Grey Wolf
Part 5 has now begun arriving
https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?p=43785#post43785
Grey Wolf
https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?p=43785#post43785
Grey Wolf