Pedro IV Emperor of Iberia

[Hawkeye]

So apparently the Spanish and Portuguese liberals had both agreed to give Pedro IV (who was also the emperor of Brazil) the crowns of both Portugal and Spain and give him the title of Emperor of Iberia as a constitutional monarchy in 1830. Yet nothing came of it.

I haven't found much concrete information concerning the accuracy of this conspiracy. Aside from a source in a wikipedia article. But I am expecting to get a book that will hopefully shed light on the subject.

 

[Hawkeye]

Would Portugal get involved in trying to take bacl Spanish colonies or extend it's influence in thw Caribbean?

 

[Karolus Rex]

All I could find about that was that some liberal exiles in Gibraltar sent a letter to Emperor Pedro I to claim the crowns of Portugal and Spain, uniting the three Crowns under the Bragança. This crazy idea has 0 chances of happening, I really can't see how they at any point considered this to be a good idea.

There was another, saner, plan supported by Juan Álvarez Mendizábal and Mouzinho da Silveira, among others, about Pedro becoming the Regent of Spain for Isabella II and for her to be betrothed to the future Pedro V de Portugal.

 

[Lusitania]

The majority of the Portuguese or Spanish would not accept it and both countries political problems would of continued. If the Portuguese would of accepted it then they would of accepted Portuguese king to continue residing in Rio but they wanted their king back in Lisbon.

Where will the capital of the new country going to reside in Rio both Iberian peope would want them in the Iberian Peninsula. The Brazilians would reject that. Plus where on the Iberian Peninsula would the capital be?

 

[Hawkeye]

All I could find about that was that some liberal exiles in Gibraltar sent a letter to Emperor Pedro I to claim the crowns of Portugal and Spain, uniting the three Crowns under the Bragança. This crazy idea has 0 chances of happening, I really can't see how they at any point considered this to be a good idea.

There was another, saner, plan supported by Juan Álvarez Mendizábal and Mouzinho da Silveira, among others, about Pedro becoming the Regent of Spain for Isabella II and for her to be betrothed to the future Pedro V de Portugal.

What, wikipedia gave me misinformation? THOSE SCOUNDRELS!

Anyways, yeah, I figured it must have been something like this. I just thought that Pedro turned it down because it would turn him into a powerless figurehead. But what exactly is the plan that your referring to and where can I find a good source on it?

The majority of the Portuguese or Spanish would not accept it and both countries political problems would of continued. If the Portuguese would of scripted it then they would of accepted Portuguese king to continue residing in Rio but they wanted their king back in Lisbon.

Where the capital of the new country going to reside in Rio both Iberian peope would want them in the Iberian Peninsula. The Brazilians would reject that. Plus where on the Iberian Peninsula would the capital be?

From my understanding, this wouldn't fuse Portugal and Spain into one entity but rather the two would continue to have their separate parliaments that would pass laws and govern their respective nations that happen to share a monarch like Canada and Britain. Pedro's position would purely be that of a figurehead, also like Canada and Britain.

 

[Karolus Rex]

What, wikipedia gave me misinformation? THOSE SCOUNDRELS!

Anyways, yeah, I figured it must have been something like this. I just thought that Pedro turned it down because it would turn him into a powerless figurehead. But what exactly is the plan that your referring to and where can I find a good source on it?

Honestly he probably turned it down because he knew it would fail and that the plan was crazy and would never work.

Can't remember where I read it but it was something about some of the most fringe liberals wanting the future King of Portugal, Pedro V, and the Queen of Spain, Isabella II, to marry and to have Pedro I of Brazil to be the Regent of Spain during Isabella's minority.

From my understanding, this wouldn't fuse Portugal and Spain into one entity but rather the two would continue to have their separate parliaments that would pass laws and govern their respective nations that happen to share a monarch like Canada and Britain. Pedro's position would purely be that of a figurehead, also like Canada and Britain.

Yeah not going to happen, neither Portugal or Spain would accept being ruled by a king in Rio. Damn Portugal would probably not accept, not having the King in Lisboa, and Spain wouldn't accept not having the King in Madrid.

Personally I see the 16th century for a better time for a united Iberia, 19th century is just too late and you have Renaixença going on in Catalonia, I think the Galician Rexurdimento is also around this time. Only way I can see a United Iberia work, and this one is a long long long long shot, would be that dream of the Spanish liberals in the 1820's to establish a Federal Iberian Republic with 7 States, 5 Spanish States and 2 Portuguese States.

 

[Lusitania]

Honestly he probably turned it down because he knew it would fail and that the plan was crazy and would never work.

Can't remember where I read it but it was something about some of the most fringe liberals wanting the future King of Portugal, Pedro V, and the Queen of Spain, Isabella II, to marry and to have Pedro I of Brazil to be the Regent of Spain during Isabella's minority.



Yeah not going to happen, neither Portugal or Spain would accept being ruled by a king in Rio. Damn Portugal would probably not accept, not having the King in Lisboa, and Spain wouldn't accept not having the King in Madrid.

Personally I see the 16th century for a better time for a united Iberia, 19th century is just too late and you have Renaixença going on in Catalonia, I think the Galician Rexurdimento is also around this time. Only way I can see a United Iberia work, and this one is a long long long long shot, would be that dream of the Spanish liberals in the 1820's to establish a Federal Iberian Republic with 7 States, 5 Spanish States and 2 Portuguese States.

Yes as long as the capital is in Lisbon and King portuguese I agree otherwise no bloody way.

 

[Hawkeye]

Honestly he probably turned it down because he knew it would fail and that the plan was crazy and would never work.

I was under the assumption that these groups had actual power and influence. But I was misinformed and was jumping to conclusions before I actually knew the real story because I thought it would be an interesting thread.

Yeah not going to happen, neither Portugal or Spain would accept being ruled by a king in Rio. Damn Portugal would probably not accept, not having the King in Lisboa, and Spain wouldn't accept not having the King in Madrid.

To be fair though, the offer was made in 1830 and it was expected that Pedro would return from Brazil and abdicate to reclaim Portugal (he was openly talking about it by 1829 at least). Which he did next year.

 

[nandalf]

There is a book about the subject,never read it,so i can not say if it is good. "The Four Crowns of D.Pedro I"

 

[JonasResende]

Can't remember where I read it but it was something about some of the most fringe liberals wanting the future King of Portugal, Pedro V, and the Queen of Spain, Isabella II, to marry and to have Pedro I of Brazil to be the Regent of Spain during Isabella's minority.

Dates would be a problem. Pedro I died in September1834, Fernando VII a few months earlier in September 1833, and Pedro V was only born in September 1837 (unless you mean Pedro II of Brasil to marry Isabel II).

So, technically the Spanish court would barely have had time for the dust to settle after Fernando's death before Pedro himself kicked.