Pechenegs and Cumans convert to Christianity/Islam

If the Pechenegs and Cumans were to convert to Christianity/Islam, what are their chances of survival?

If the Pechenegs converted to Eastern Orthodoxy, could they overrun and rule Bulgaria?

How likely is it?

PoD is 1050 AD
 
If the Pechenegs and Cumans were to convert to Christianity/Islam, what are their chances of survival?

If the Pechenegs converted to Eastern Orthodoxy, could they overrun and rule Bulgaria?

How likely is it?

PoD is 1050 AD

I thought the Pechenegs were destroyed in battle by Emperor John II Komnenos of the Byzantine Empire in 1122? Their defeat was so heavy that they disappeared from history.

So they basically have 72 years to convert or die out. I think Orthodox Christianity is their best option due to geography and neighbours at the time.

But how will they not be destroyed in 1122?
 
If the Pechenegs and Cumans were to convert to Christianity/Islam, what are their chances of survival?

Cumans/Kipchak/Polovtsy as the people (not as an independent state) did survive, at least those who lived in Europe. They just changed the name and became "Tatars" (it seems that the heritage is mostly associated with the Tatars of the Crimea) but the Blue ("Golden") Horde also had been called the Kipchak Horde because they represented an overwhelming majority of its population (plus Bulgars and other nations of the Volga region). This is not to mention the smaller groups elsewhere in Europe.

Some of the Polovtsy had been converted into Christianity well before the Mongolian conquest (by the time of the Jebe/Subotai raid some of their khans had Christian names) and the process continued, especially among those who fled to the Byzantine empire, but it seems that there were numerous Muslims as well, at least this was the case with the troops sent from the Golden Horde to help Hulagu in his campaign against the Caliphate. However, it seems that a majority remained "pagan" until general conversion of the Horde.

Pechenegs adopted Islam in the IX century so there is not too much to guess about. As the Muslims they got associated with the Seljuks and eventually got squeezed between the Byzantines and Polovtsy (who would be looking for their territory anyway).

Taking into an account that neither Pegenegs nor Cumans created strong states, their chance to survive the Mongolian conquest as a national entity. Especially taking into an account that they lived in the area the most suitable for the newly-established Mongolian state.
 
I think Orthodox Christianity is their best option due to geography and neighbours at the time.

Don't forget the Muslim Seljuks on their "southern flank" - both had been fighting the Byzantine Empire and conversion to Islam would make sense in the IX century.

But how will they not be destroyed in 1122?

1122 was mostly an agony: they were already expelled from their habitat on the Russian borders in 1121 and had to migrate somewhere.
 
Cumans/Kipchak/Polovtsy as the people (not as an independent state) did survive, at least those who lived in Europe. They just changed the name and became "Tatars" (it seems that the heritage is mostly associated with the Tatars of the Crimea) but the Blue ("Golden") Horde also had been called the Kipchak Horde because they represented an overwhelming majority of its population (plus Bulgars and other nations of the Volga region). This is not to mention the smaller groups elsewhere in Europe.

Some of the Polovtsy had been converted into Christianity well before the Mongolian conquest (by the time of the Jebe/Subotai raid some of their khans had Christian names) and the process continued, especially among those who fled to the Byzantine empire, but it seems that there were numerous Muslims as well, at least this was the case with the troops sent from the Golden Horde to help Hulagu in his campaign against the Caliphate. However, it seems that a majority remained "pagan" until general conversion of the Horde.

Pechenegs adopted Islam in the IX century so there is not too much to guess about. As the Muslims they got associated with the Seljuks and eventually got squeezed between the Byzantines and Polovtsy (who would be looking for their territory anyway).

Taking into an account that neither Pegenegs nor Cumans created strong states, their chance to survive the Mongolian conquest as a national entity. Especially taking into an account that they lived in the area the most suitable for the newly-established Mongolian state.

I don't remember the Pechenegs being Muslim?
 
Many of the Pechenegs actually did convert to Islam. As the story goes, many of them were converted in the 11th century by a prisoner.

Many of the Cumans also converted to Christianity. In fact, a large bloc of up to 60,000 Cumans were invited to settle in Hungary between Pest and Bihar, adopting Christianity along the way. The region became known for a long time as Kunság - basically "Kun land," with "Kun" meaning "Cuman." Cuman was still spoken there for up to 400 years after they settled. Allegedly something similar happened with small groups of Pechenegs in Hungary, while the ERE also settled a few groups of them, but they faded into obscurity and assimilated into their Balkan neighbours.

It's certainly possible for either group to go on a big stomping-boy rampage and take over chunks of Eastern Europe. The Pechenegs allegedly entered the Balkans with a large body of men, allegedly still having 80,000 men by the Battle of Levounion - more than enough to be a serious threat - but the Cumans are probably more likely to do serious damage. OTL, dealings with the Cumans were usually dealings with individual clan leaders or leaders of smaller groups of clans; there was no Cuman Temujin to unite them. You probably could have a more unified Cuman entity with a big heavyweight at the top who leads the nominally unified clans on a big romp through the Balkans, ultimately converting to Christianity to rule over their subjects.
 
I don't remember the Pechenegs being Muslim?

No need to remember something that you can easily find with a Google search. :)

"Until around 1010, the Pechenegs probably practiced shamanist-Täri religion, but thereafter began to convert to Islam." https://www.encyclopedia.com/social-sciences-and-law/anthropology-and-archaeology/people/pechenegs

"Islamic missionaries, however, had managed to convert most of the Pechenegs by 1010." http://www.encyclopediaofukraine.com/display.asp?linkpath=pages\P\E\Pechenegs.htm


Etc.
 
No need to remember something that you can easily find with a Google search. :)

"Until around 1010, the Pechenegs probably practiced shamanist-Täri religion, but thereafter began to convert to Islam." https://www.encyclopedia.com/social-sciences-and-law/anthropology-and-archaeology/people/pechenegs

"Islamic missionaries, however, had managed to convert most of the Pechenegs by 1010." http://www.encyclopediaofukraine.com/display.asp?linkpath=pages\P\E\Pechenegs.htm


Etc.

Now this is interesting... I am fairly new to this era. So I did not know about this. It sounds weird when one considers the Pechenegs were surrounded by Eastern Orthodox States. And some Khans were Christians IIRC.
 
Now this is interesting... I am fairly new to this era. So I did not know about this. It sounds weird when one considers the Pechenegs were surrounded by Eastern Orthodox States. And some Khans were Christians IIRC.

The Pechenegs who settled by Kiev as part of the Black Hats were probably Orthodox: there are ruins of churches where they settled but no mosques from the period. Same with all the other Black Hats.

The ones that stayed out on the Steppes were probably at least partly Muslim.

Cumans settling in Georgia, Bulgaria and Hungary became Orthodox, those under the Mongols were probably mixed with the Kangly/Eastern Kypchaks who were largely Muslim even before the Mongol invasion and so the whole area Islamised in the period from Berke to Uzbek.
 
Now this is interesting... I am fairly new to this era. So I did not know about this. It sounds weird when one considers the Pechenegs were surrounded by Eastern Orthodox States. And some Khans were Christians IIRC.

I know that some Khans of the Polovtsy had been Christian but not sure about the Pechenegs (quite possible because there are mentions about the Christian missionaries. As for them being "surrounded" by Eastern Orthodox States (map shows situation circe 1015), there were none on their Eastern and Northern borders and plenty of Muslims nearby. With the immediate neighbors being enemies (more or less by definition), the enemies of the enemies would be friends.
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