Peasants Unite!

I have read that small peasant communes existed all throughout europe during the middle ages. Basically ignored by many rulers but sometimes being a major source for conflict and eventually subdued. I would consider the various dissedent religous communities as peasant communes. But none lasted for too long or are recorded as major historical powers.

The question I have is what are the best conditions for a successful People's Peasant State?
 
I have read that small peasant communes existed all throughout europe during the middle ages. Basically ignored by many rulers but sometimes being a major source for conflict and eventually subdued. I would consider the various dissedent religous communities as peasant communes. But none lasted for too long or are recorded as major historical powers.

The question I have is what are the best conditions for a successful People's Peasant State?

My guess would be a successful Peasant's Revolt in England in 1381, but I am not certain of their goals (other than the elimination of villeinage), so maybe not.
 

Skokie

Banned
It is my understanding that a peasant is by definition an agrarian person of very low status. A peasant power would be a contradiction in terms. Once they seized power, they would become something else.

[/semantics]
 

Keenir

Banned
It is my understanding that a peasant is by definition an agrarian person of very low status. A peasant power would be a contradiction in terms. Once they seized power, they would become something else.

[/semantics]

didn't the Lollards (or some other group) want a peasant-based theocracy?
 
It would pretty much have to be based on a successful and coinsciously new religion. Rural communities in European histpry have pretty much always been heterodox in religious terms, but crucially, they didn't see it that way. As far as the good folk of Montaillou were concerned, they were good Christians and Catholics, however much the Inquisition begged to differ. That means uniting them will be a hopeless cause - they'd regard each other as heretics and filthy foreigners.

Political interest is a possibility, but it is hard to see how it could organise itself. Even as late as the Peasant War of 1525, religion played a major role.

I think one good opportunity would be in the course of the 'apostolic poverty' waves of the 11th-13th centuries. Rural communities were less affected than the urban poor, but it could easily spread and lead some of them to form into a community that rejects aristocratic power and wealth. Find a bishop who's willing to tolerate them (and an area that is distant or inaccessible enough for them to be unbothered), and you're in business. It's noit as far-fetched as it seems, the popes were quite ready to make deals with rebels if they felt unthreatened, and the Franciscans almost got branded heretics before becoming pillars of the Church.

An alternative would be a more successful 15th century anticlerical movement holding on. Wiclif, Hus and a myriad forgotten others held ideas that could find broad acceptance among the peasantry if advertised right. I'm not sure the English Peasant Revolt had the opportunity - its heartland is too accessible and the state too powerful - but the mountains of the north, the Appenines, Alps, Carpathians, Massif Central or such, the plains and islands of the North Sea coast or the eastern borderlands with the Orthodox and Ottomans would be possible locations.
 
oh man 1381 holds a special place in my heart, those men and women seem so sane by today's standards, fighting against spiritual slavery of the sort we cannot understand. let them win!
 

Redbeard

Banned
I came to think of the Ditmarsk in western Holstein in 15th/16th century. They were a wealthy and relatively independent peasants/merchants "republic", but in OTL they seriously pissed off the King of Denmark by humiliating his army (helped by an early thaw) in 1500 and was finanally subdued some decades later.

AFAIK the main reason for an army being sent towards the Ditmarsk in 1500 was Holstein nobles wanting the obnoxious peasants punished for their competition in the important cattle trade. The King of Denmark and the Holstein nobles did not necessarily have a loving relationship, so I guess it would not be impossible to have the Ditmarsker survive until the next clash between the King and the Holstein nobility - and then perhaps even have the Ditmarsker and the King be allies.

BTW the humiliation in the Ditmarsk in 1500 was a main reason behind Sweden withdrawing from the Kalmar Union - so there might easily be major sideeffects of this PoD.

Regards

Steffen Redbeard
 
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