Peasants' Revolt + Percy Rebellion + Lollardy all in one go

Thande

Donor
Somewhat inspired by Nek's Astonishing the World TL in which he attempts to mix the Crimean War with the American Civil War and so forth...the late 14th century in England saw a number of upheavals aimed at the power of the Crown and the established (Catholic) Church. Most of these were essentially caused by popular dissatisfaction at either the continuation of, or at least the handling of, the Hundred Years' War.

These included the Percy Rebellion (an early part of the Wars of the Roses), the rise of the Lollards (proto-Protestants who attacked Catholic iconography and corruption) and the Peasants' Revolt, which was originally a simple revolt inspired by rising taxes to fund the war, but later developed an anti-clericalist ideology and anti-noble ideology, seeking to install a state which had one king and one archbishop and then everyone else was equal citizens.

Is there any way in which we can combine these events - spread over a course of 20 years or so - into one big anti-establishment movement? Lollardy was also strongly connected with the Peasants' Revolt (persecution of Lollards really stepped up after the Revolt was defeated in OTL), so that's easy enough. The rest is more difficult, but could perhaps one of the Lancastrian claimants to the throne (and his Percy backers) have decided to enlist the help of the peasants purely on realpolitick grounds to help attack the Plantagenets, only to discover afterwards that they were now too powerful to ignore? A bit like Cromwell and the Levellers a few hundred years later.

Of course, this is not a particularly interesting WI unless we assume that this movement wins. So let's say that we have an England by ~1410 or so which has a Plantagenet king, powerful Percys who rule the North, and a watered-down form of the peasants' ideology which has resulted in the rooting out of corruption, a more independent established church and the tolerance of Lollardy. This would be expressed through a somewhat reformed Parliament, which already had significant powers by this point in OTL, and thus would be hard for the establishment to crack down on afterwards. Presumably this England would have withdrawn early from the Hundred Years' War, which is now only the Fifty Years' War or so. Now what happens?
 
Somewhat inspired by Nek's Astonishing the World TL in which he attempts to mix the Crimean War with the American Civil War and so forth...the late 14th century in England saw a number of upheavals aimed at the power of the Crown and the established (Catholic) Church. Most of these were essentially caused by popular dissatisfaction at either the continuation of, or at least the handling of, the Hundred Years' War.

These included the Percy Rebellion (an early part of the Wars of the Roses), the rise of the Lollards (proto-Protestants who attacked Catholic iconography and corruption) and the Peasants' Revolt, which was originally a simple revolt inspired by rising taxes to fund the war, but later developed an anti-clericalist ideology and anti-noble ideology, seeking to install a state which had one king and one archbishop and then everyone else was equal citizens.

Is there any way in which we can combine these events - spread over a course of 20 years or so - into one big anti-establishment movement? Lollardy was also strongly connected with the Peasants' Revolt (persecution of Lollards really stepped up after the Revolt was defeated in OTL), so that's easy enough. The rest is more difficult, but could perhaps one of the Lancastrian claimants to the throne (and his Percy backers) have decided to enlist the help of the peasants purely on realpolitick grounds to help attack the Plantagenets, only to discover afterwards that they were now too powerful to ignore? A bit like Cromwell and the Levellers a few hundred years later.

But obviously ending a bit better for those picked to play the role of Levellers in this little shin-dig . . .

Of course, this is not a particularly interesting WI unless we assume that this movement wins. So let's say that we have an England by ~1410 or so which has a Plantagenet king, powerful Percys who rule the North, and a watered-down form of the peasants' ideology which has resulted in the rooting out of corruption, a more independent established church and the tolerance of Lollardy. This would be expressed through a somewhat reformed Parliament, which already had significant powers by this point in OTL, and thus would be hard for the establishment to crack down on afterwards. Presumably this England would have withdrawn early from the Hundred Years' War, which is now only the Fifty Years' War or so. Now what happens?

So basically, you want to combine the nobility's struggle as seen in the War of the Roses, with the Peasant discontent and the whole religious thing. Well . . . . I would actually choose a different parallel for you here. How about the False Dmitry during the Russian Time of Trouble? The Peasant Rebellion gets noble backing.

What if you push up Percy's Rebellion? I'm not really lookin at War of the Roses history right now, but a claimant arrives and champions the Peasants, who in turn suppor him as their new champion. Nobility join the rebellion, it reaches and takes London. Several of the Peasant Army commanders are low-knights or other non-nobles who champion their peoples' "rights" and realize they can impose new demands. The newly proclaimed King dies during this new phase of demands, and his son is proclaimed King. The things flies apart as different factions vie for the regency and renewed civil war occurs. Except that the Peasants' Army and its demands have been legitimized by the nobility who supported the rebellion in the first place, and those cheeky peasants' stole the child-King. So its the Peasants' Army (or the Regency) against the remaining nobility, and everyone is in for a treat . . .
 
What if Richard II's disposition doesnt go as smooth as it did in OTL, devolving into a 3 way civil war between Richard II, the supporters of Edmund Mortimer (the next in line), and Henry Bolingbroke (future Henry IV)?

With TTL's Henry IV having by far the weakest claim on the throne, it isn't inconceivable to have him enlist the peasants on pure realpolitik grounds all the while trying to co-opt the forces of the Peasant Revolt and Lollardy to try and get himself the throne of England. Take into account Owain Glyndmyr's revolt in 1403 and Henry IV's son's considerable martial skill and a victory for Henry IV isn't inconceivable.

However the civil war that preceeds it will almost certainly cause England to drop out of the 100yrs war.

Just an idea...
 
Seeing as power rested in the hands of the nobility at that time (they had the only experienced soldiers) I can't see any surviving "republic". Sooner or later the head of the noble's cabal who used the peasants to gain more power would become King and then crush the peasants.
Best case scenario is for a slight extension of powers to the growing middle class.
 
Seeing as power rested in the hands of the nobility at that time (they had the only experienced soldiers) I can't see any surviving "republic". Sooner or later the head of the noble's cabal who used the peasants to gain more power would become King and then crush the peasants.
Best case scenario is for a slight extension of powers to the growing middle class.

The idea that I had was that the nobility who decided to use the *Peasants' Revolt would end up creating an army. Basically, by allying themselves with the radicals who would be needed to stir up the Peasants they create an armed group that they can't control. Something like the New Model Army, only the *Grandees are cynical and short-sighted, rather than simply moderate (I use the term loosely) and manipulative.

The Peasants' demands end up having resonance with the common soldiery who makes up the majority of the rebels military strength, and when the time comes for the nobility to get rid of the rabble they used to gain power, they find their soldiers swords pointed in the wrong direction . . .

Since Lollardy is playing a role here, what do you think about some kind of divinely inspired republic (ala various points during the Commonwealth) as being the *Peasants' Rebellion's rallying cry. Something like, "All men are equal before God," taken to some bloody nth degree.
 
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