Peace treaty for successful Austria

Assuming that Austria wins the Austro-Prussian war, what it the peace treaty likely to look like? I've read that the Austrians expected to get Silesia if they were successful, but what about the other German States. Could Saxony regain part of its old territories? And what is to become of Venetia?
 
As for Venetia, I'd think that Austria would keep it, since Italy did much worse in their front of the war than Prussia did.

The German settlement depends a lot on the course of the war. A crushing Austrian victory would see the Austrians take Silesia, and the various small states take their pounds of flesh. I don;t know enough about the period to make specific suggestions. If the Austrian leader was smart, though, they'd encourage the small states to take chunks of Prussia, to bind them even closer to Austria. When Prussia comes back, they will want that land back, and Austria will be there to protect them.
 

archaeogeek

Banned
The most likely I can see in such a situation would be
- Westfalen to Hannover
- Saxony recovers Lusace and the Halle region
- Austria might hand over the Schleswig-Holstein to a cadet of the house of Oldenburg (but not the king of Denmark obviously)
- Silesia or Rhineland but not both to Austria itself.

Honestly it depends on how bad things get though.
 
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Valdemar II

Banned
Austrian Silesia, pre Vienna Saxony and independent Schleswig-Holstein are going to be quite interesting.

Austria suddenly have significant increased their German population and gained a major industrial region. I could also see them regain Lusatia against Saxony regaining their old northen territories. Austria are back in the game and Hungarian are likely looking foreward to a world of hurt if they try anything.

Pre-Vienna Saxony with or without Lusatia are a easten Belgium a major industrial powerhouse but still only a minor player.

Schleswig-Holstein have the problem of how to deal with their Danish minority, I see either a closer relationship with Denmark (through not a union) or a very conflicted relationship. I lean to the first economical the Schleswigian-Holsteinian suffered becauase of the split to much greater extent than the Danish did, and without being part of the empire, they likely try to reestablish some kind of new cooperation.
 
I was wondering if there is any way that the Rhineland and, particularly, Westphalia could become independent principalities?

How about the catholic Hohenzollern branch getting the whole western Prussian lands? Or an Austrian second line?

I'd think that the Hessian principalities would be enlarged, and I think Hannover would get Münster. Bavaria could have the Saar region - or, even more interesting, Luxemburg gets the Saar region and gets closer into Germany.

We shouldn't forget Italy. Probably the Hapsburgs reclaim Lombardia, reestablishing their Vienna frontiers. Furthermore, the papal state still exists in Rome and could get back its losses...
 

Susano

Banned
Prussias not going to lose Rhineland-Westphalia unless it suffers a ridicolous decisive defeat - which wont happen. Rhineland-Westphalia really is "all or nothing" - if Prussia loses it it has lost its great power status. I mean, Im sure Austria would like that, but it wouldnt be worth the additional expenses and risks of an enlengthened war.

I think everything has been said here: Austria will regain Silesia, Saxony will regain the pre-1815 borders (which excluded Halle, btw, heh), Schleswig-Holstein will become independent... Bavaria will take some lands at the Palatinatian-Rhinelandish border, with some luck for them even the entire Trier-Koblenz region, Hannover might nibble a bit at Westphalia and Prov. Saxony, Hesse-Kassel might gain some of Prussias Thuringian possessions, Nassau might regain Siegen, Hesse-Darmstadt might regain parts or maybe all of the former Duchy of Westphalia, and Württemberg and Baden will probably divide the Province of Hohenzollern between them.
 

Susano

Banned
The Kingdom of Veneto is one of the Austrian pre-compromise states already.
And if they try to regain Lombardy, France might get involved.

Oh, right, reminds me, thats a problem anyway. Napoleon IIIs original plan was to intercede on Prussias behalf once it loses, which is what anybody was assuming, demanding the Rhine border in return. This was shot down when Prussia won, and is a reason why Bismarck wanted to have such a quikc peace with Austria, to not give N3 time to reconsider his options. Now in this scenario Prussia is defeated, and N3 might decide to meddle in the situation...
 

archaeogeek

Banned
And if they try to regain Lombardy, France might get involved.

Oh, right, reminds me, thats a problem anyway. Napoleon IIIs original plan was to intercede on Prussias behalf once it loses, which is what anybody was assuming, demanding the Rhine border in return. This was shot down when Prussia won, and is a reason why Bismarck wanted to have such a quikc peace with Austria, to not give N3 time to reconsider his options. Now in this scenario Prussia is defeated, and N3 might decide to meddle in the situation...

Lombardia can become a bargaining chip; romantic nationalism and not wanting to share too much of a border with the Austrians was Napoleon's weakness ;)
 
And if they try to regain Lombardy, France might get involved.

Oh, right, reminds me, thats a problem anyway. Napoleon IIIs original plan was to intercede on Prussias behalf once it loses, which is what anybody was assuming, demanding the Rhine border in return. This was shot down when Prussia won, and is a reason why Bismarck wanted to have such a quikc peace with Austria, to not give N3 time to reconsider his options. Now in this scenario Prussia is defeated, and N3 might decide to meddle in the situation...

Are you sure??? I was reading a biography of Eugenie recently and Napoleon III actually attended a meeting to mobilise the army on Austria's behalf, but backed down after thinking about it too long.

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 

Susano

Banned
Are you sure??? I was reading a biography of Eugenie recently and Napoleon III actually attended a meeting to mobilise the army on Austria's behalf, but backed down after thinking about it too long.

Best Regards
Grey Wolf

Thats what I read (that is, I read what Ive said not what youve said, obviously, heh). My main source would be Preußen ohne Legende by Haffner. Why would Napoleon by sympathetic to the Austrians? After all Italy was a kind of French ally at the time.
 
Venetia would be lost whatever the outcome; the Austrians had been forced to agree to it before the war to ensure that Napoleon III would not take Prussia's side. It seemed like a good deal since they expected to gain Silesia. Trying to back away on the agreement would risk war with France; trying to regain Lombardy would guarantee it. The Italians had started the war in a diplomatic environment in which they couldn't lose no matter what happened on the battlefield.
 

Valdemar II

Banned
Prussias not going to lose Rhineland-Westphalia unless it suffers a ridicolous decisive defeat - which wont happen. Rhineland-Westphalia really is "all or nothing" - if Prussia loses it it has lost its great power status. I mean, Im sure Austria would like that, but it wouldnt be worth the additional expenses and risks of an enlengthened war.

I think everything has been said here: Austria will regain Silesia, Saxony will regain the pre-1815 borders (which excluded Halle, btw, heh), Schleswig-Holstein will become independent... Bavaria will take some lands at the Palatinatian-Rhinelandish border, with some luck for them even the entire Trier-Koblenz region, Hannover might nibble a bit at Westphalia and Prov. Saxony, Hesse-Kassel might gain some of Prussias Thuringian possessions, Nassau might regain Siegen, Hesse-Darmstadt might regain parts or maybe all of the former Duchy of Westphalia, and Württemberg and Baden will probably divide the Province of Hohenzollern between them.

Bavaria gaining the entire Mosel valley would be a big deal, they would have Saar and most of Rheinland-Pfalz. Pfalz would suddenly have been transformed from a small Bavarian province to a third of Bavarias population.
 

Susano

Banned
Yeah, Bavaria would luck out with that. But its the only point they can get any territory from, and what else borders are there? A mosel border for example makes absolutely no sense, the valley needs to belong to one state.
 
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