Interesting TL here which I'll be sure to follow, but are you telling me that it's 1938 and Chiang Kai-Shek's never heard of a tank before in his life?
Peace in Our Time
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wormyguy
Banned
He's heard of them, he just doesn't understand their use (still theoretical in 1938). In 1938, the National Revolutionary Army had only 48 armored fighting vehicles of any kind.
wormyguy
Banned
Because the new government is essentially a military junta that is only attempting to maintain a pretense of constitutional government. The country is essentially being run by aristocratic Junkers within the military.
An interesting fact - Germany actually sold China 10 Panzer Is in 1935, but they were all destroyed in the defense of Shanghai.
Von Falkenhausen was not pleased. Nearly all the work he had done in China had been undone, either by the Japanese, or incompetent Chinese leadership.
He suggested to Chiang that what remained of the German-trained divisions be withdrawn from frontline duty and reorganized into a training battalion. To this Chiang agreed. He also suggested that warlord-controlled troops be the first to be retrained, in order to increase their loyalties to the central government, and that the salaries of common soldiers ought to be increased in order to discourage petty corruption, "foraging" and looting, something which would undoubtedly increase Chiang's popularity among the peasants. To these Chiang also agreed, but von Falkenhausen could sense a passive flippantness in Chiang's voice that seemed to suggest he did not take these proposals very seriously.
But anyways, he now had to prepare the Chinese for their new tanks, on the way. It was not an easy task. The Chinese generals attempted to impress him with their knowledge by informing him that "armored cavalry" had gone out of fashion in the late-Renaissance. There was still much work to be done.
Parliamentary Debates, Commons, vol. 339 (Nov. 26, 1939)
Speech in Support of Cordial Relations with Germany
The Prime Minister
As I am sure that all of my friends assembled in this hall are aware, Germany has recently undergone a great national trial in the death of its fuhrer. I have met with Foreign Minister von Neurath, and he assures me that Germany will emerge from this period of crisis yet stronger, however.
As we are all aware, our relations with Germany have recently been strained. But, in light of recent events, I think that it is now in the best interests of Britain to pursue a policy of rapproachement with Germany. Von Neurath assures me his intentions are only peaceful, and that the German people's admiration for Britain has never been greater. Who are we to let this admiration amount to nought? It is therefore my great pleasure to say that, in conjunction with Monseuir Lebrun and Signor Mussolini, it is our intention to negotiate an end to current German border disagreements with France, Denmark, and Poland. (Hon. MPs: Shame.)
There is no shame in striving for peace. No, the real shame belongs to those warmongerers and deceptionists among us who would have the temerity to start another Great War! It is our utmost achievement, preserving this peace. Let me remind every one of the honorable members of His Majesty's House of Commons that there is no triumph in war greater than the triumph that is peace! It is no shame, no shame, to create a new era in Europe, one of the greatest prosperity, one where no longer do the great powers strive to defeat one another in war after good-for-nothing war. Is this a naive ideal? I, for one, am convinced that it is the ideal of a true leader, not some pontificating Colonel Blimp who would go to war with all Europe over some village in the Carpathians. (Hon. MPs: Hear, hear).
I shall keep my speech brief, so that my most honored German friend can clear up any doubts you may have about the German commitment to peace. Herr von Neurath is a man truly commited to Peace in Our Time.
Valdemar II
Banned
+This Germany is going to be rather unstable, the Unions had large support in Germany, and if they tries to get rid of them*, internal resistants will become rather common.
*Something even the Nazis didn't (they only took them over.)
*Something even the Nazis didn't (they only took them over.)
wormyguy
Banned
November 27, 1938 - Germany
Undoing Naziism, Bolshevism, and Related -isms:The new German government had a confounding problem - the Hitlerites had been conducting their "revolution" for nearly 6 years now, and the National Socialist German Worker's Party had stayed true to its name by attempting to make nationalism inseparable from Socialism and the party, with dangerous republican, corporatist, anti-army and anti-Prussian influences. The most dangerous Marxist-Bolshevists had been purged in 1934, but then so were the most steadfast traditionalists. Nationalism had to be separated from National Socialist ideology - but how?
On the 27th, by special decree of the Reichstag, the abdicated Emperor was named "Protector of Germany." His son, Wilhelm, was officially named Crown Prince of Germany, and "Protector of Prussia." The Weimar coat of arms is replaced by the imperial one. A referendum on a full restoration of the monarchy is scheduled to be held in a month.
By unanimous vote, the Treaty of Versailles is declared to have been illegal in all its clauses.
Labor unions are separated from the state apparatus. However, new laws are passed:
All youth organizations, except the KAD and those with an expressly non-political bent, are banned (thus implicitly re-legalizing several organizations, such as the Boy Scouts).
The military takes a new oath - they are loyal foremost to Germany, are sworn to defend it with their utmost strength and honor in its brightest day and darkest night, and to always maintain their fighting spirit.
Three new political parties are formed, to serve as "opposition" in the Reichstag.
The first is the People's Party (VP). Its manifesto calls for unity among German workers to fight together for equality, both for equality internationally, and social equality within Germany.
The second is the Left-Marxist Party (LMP). Its manifesto calls for violent revolution, the execution of the wealthy and "Fascist intellectuals," labels all other political parties as "Fascist collaborators," and suggests also that the nation do its utmost to uphold the terms of the Treaty of Versailles, so that she knows the danger of being forced by plutocratic Capitalist interests into imperialist conflict, when the real conflict is the worldwide class struggle. It also suggests that children be raised communally, and that the workplace and the (treaty-limited) military be composed 50% of women and negroes. It characterizes itself as a "syndicalist party under the umbrella of Trotskyist worldwide revolution."
The third is the German National People's Victory Front (DNVSF). It manifesto calls for immediate war against France and Britain and Poland and Italy and Yugoslavia and the Soviet Union, "to avenge the atrocities of 1918 and before." It calls for quadrupling the size of the navy, "eliminating worldwide the purveyors of Jewish and Socialist thought," banning of labor unions and imprisonment of their members, and eliminating the welfare state. In addition, it holds a very low opinion of all members of government since 1918, for instance it characterizes Hindenberg as "a Communist Bolshevik homosexual Jewish un-German traitor."
A book is published - National Struggle and Bolshevist Lies - and is passed out for free in public squares all throughout the country.
Here is a sample passage.
Undoing Naziism, Bolshevism, and Related -isms:The new German government had a confounding problem - the Hitlerites had been conducting their "revolution" for nearly 6 years now, and the National Socialist German Worker's Party had stayed true to its name by attempting to make nationalism inseparable from Socialism and the party, with dangerous republican, corporatist, anti-army and anti-Prussian influences. The most dangerous Marxist-Bolshevists had been purged in 1934, but then so were the most steadfast traditionalists. Nationalism had to be separated from National Socialist ideology - but how?
On the 27th, by special decree of the Reichstag, the abdicated Emperor was named "Protector of Germany." His son, Wilhelm, was officially named Crown Prince of Germany, and "Protector of Prussia." The Weimar coat of arms is replaced by the imperial one. A referendum on a full restoration of the monarchy is scheduled to be held in a month.
By unanimous vote, the Treaty of Versailles is declared to have been illegal in all its clauses.
Labor unions are separated from the state apparatus. However, new laws are passed:
It is now illegal for workers to claim compensation for days in which they did no work.
A new crime - "egregious trespassing" - is added to the books. Individuals who trespass for more than three days on private property can be fined up to three thousand Reichsmarks and imprisoned for up to 2 years.
A 50% tax is imposed on all donations to political and social organizations.
The "Anti-Riot Act" is passed - individuals who participate in a riot are collectively liable for all damage caused by said riot.
Preventing employees from performing their work is now a crime, punishable by fines equal to the combined value of the worker(s)'s labor and his wages.
Interestingly, the Reichsarbeitsdienst (Reich Labor Service) of the Nazis retains not only its legality but its official sponsorship; it is to be used as a national strike-breaking organization, which will perform manual and semi-skilled work in place of striking workers, in exchange for a nominal fee to the government,
All military and paramilitary formations outside of the Wehrmacht and police forces are banned.A new crime - "egregious trespassing" - is added to the books. Individuals who trespass for more than three days on private property can be fined up to three thousand Reichsmarks and imprisoned for up to 2 years.
A 50% tax is imposed on all donations to political and social organizations.
The "Anti-Riot Act" is passed - individuals who participate in a riot are collectively liable for all damage caused by said riot.
Preventing employees from performing their work is now a crime, punishable by fines equal to the combined value of the worker(s)'s labor and his wages.
Interestingly, the Reichsarbeitsdienst (Reich Labor Service) of the Nazis retains not only its legality but its official sponsorship; it is to be used as a national strike-breaking organization, which will perform manual and semi-skilled work in place of striking workers, in exchange for a nominal fee to the government,
All youth organizations, except the KAD and those with an expressly non-political bent, are banned (thus implicitly re-legalizing several organizations, such as the Boy Scouts).
The military takes a new oath - they are loyal foremost to Germany, are sworn to defend it with their utmost strength and honor in its brightest day and darkest night, and to always maintain their fighting spirit.
Three new political parties are formed, to serve as "opposition" in the Reichstag.
The first is the People's Party (VP). Its manifesto calls for unity among German workers to fight together for equality, both for equality internationally, and social equality within Germany.
The second is the Left-Marxist Party (LMP). Its manifesto calls for violent revolution, the execution of the wealthy and "Fascist intellectuals," labels all other political parties as "Fascist collaborators," and suggests also that the nation do its utmost to uphold the terms of the Treaty of Versailles, so that she knows the danger of being forced by plutocratic Capitalist interests into imperialist conflict, when the real conflict is the worldwide class struggle. It also suggests that children be raised communally, and that the workplace and the (treaty-limited) military be composed 50% of women and negroes. It characterizes itself as a "syndicalist party under the umbrella of Trotskyist worldwide revolution."
The third is the German National People's Victory Front (DNVSF). It manifesto calls for immediate war against France and Britain and Poland and Italy and Yugoslavia and the Soviet Union, "to avenge the atrocities of 1918 and before." It calls for quadrupling the size of the navy, "eliminating worldwide the purveyors of Jewish and Socialist thought," banning of labor unions and imprisonment of their members, and eliminating the welfare state. In addition, it holds a very low opinion of all members of government since 1918, for instance it characterizes Hindenberg as "a Communist Bolshevik homosexual Jewish un-German traitor."
A book is published - National Struggle and Bolshevist Lies - and is passed out for free in public squares all throughout the country.
Here is a sample passage.
"'Is it true that the Jews stabbed Germany in the back at the conclusion of the Great War?'
No, this is not true. Germany was stabbed in the back by a small group of Bolshevist Marxist criminals. Recently, the Bolshevist-Marxists who infiltrated the past government and killed the Chancellor attempted to deflect the blame from themselves by pinning it on the Jews. This is untrue. Germany's Jewish population for the most part stayed loyal to the end of the Great War, like all good Germans. Bolshevists attempted large-scale looting and gangsterism towards the Jews, in order to "redistribute wealth." Undoubtedly, there were some Jews in the ranks of the Bolshevists who betrayed Germany, but they were the minority, as the cowardly Bolshevists were among all Germans. This merely shows the ratlike cowardice among the Bolshevists - how can they protect you, the German worker, when they cannot even protect their own kind!"
No, this is not true. Germany was stabbed in the back by a small group of Bolshevist Marxist criminals. Recently, the Bolshevist-Marxists who infiltrated the past government and killed the Chancellor attempted to deflect the blame from themselves by pinning it on the Jews. This is untrue. Germany's Jewish population for the most part stayed loyal to the end of the Great War, like all good Germans. Bolshevists attempted large-scale looting and gangsterism towards the Jews, in order to "redistribute wealth." Undoubtedly, there were some Jews in the ranks of the Bolshevists who betrayed Germany, but they were the minority, as the cowardly Bolshevists were among all Germans. This merely shows the ratlike cowardice among the Bolshevists - how can they protect you, the German worker, when they cannot even protect their own kind!"
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All I wanna do, is be good friends with you
Brillent timeline friends.
2 questions:
1 Does Beck make the offer to guarutee the british empire, that Hitler did?
2 Does Japan still make KMT dissesenters like Weng Jaiwei, pardon the spelling, an offer they can't refuse?
Brillent timeline friends.
2 questions:
1 Does Beck make the offer to guarutee the british empire, that Hitler did?
2 Does Japan still make KMT dissesenters like Weng Jaiwei, pardon the spelling, an offer they can't refuse?
November 1938
Already has Austria and Czech
Any agreement will be more fragile than the German/Russian agreements in the late 30's.
And without Nazi Germany it will be interesting to see what happens with the Fascist groups in the middle East.
And with the French Brown Shirts.
The Map -- IIRC Japan didn't invade Hainan Island till 1943
Already has Austria and Czech
?Isn't Spain still involved in Civil War?
?Where would this idea come from? they where Members just weeks ago.
Except the antagonism to Russia goes back to the 1820's when they where running around massacring each others trading posts on Sakhalin Island.
Any agreement will be more fragile than the German/Russian agreements in the late 30's.
France Britian & Italy will just love this.
He has his friend Franco
And without Nazi Germany it will be interesting to see what happens with the Fascist groups in the middle East.And with the French Brown Shirts.
Speer remains just another Successful Respected Architect in Berlin. Von Braun returns to running the German Rocketry Society.
?And how is Poland, and the Baltic's taking this?
The Map -- IIRC Japan didn't invade Hainan Island till 1943
wormyguy
Banned
Thank you for your feedback! Believe it or not, I enjoy criticism - it improves my understanding immensely.
1. These guys.
2. The Nazis.
3. Another Great War (and look at the size of the new German alliance!).
4. Anarchy and Communism.
They grudgingly prefer the first one. Anyways, all this does is change what had been de facto for half a decade into the de jure.
Well, it has the Sudetenland, not all of Czechoslovakia. That was in March, 1939, OTL.
It is, I should have said the Spanish Nationalists - that was an error. However, there was no doubt at this point as to who would be the ultimate victor.
Yes, but the German switch of support back to the Chinese (which prompted them to pull out in protest), and the membership in the pact of Thailand, considered within the Japanese sphere of influence, has convinced them that Germany is harboring aggressive intentions against them (somewhat rightly). The 1930s/40s Japanese military/diplomatic leadership were not the most rational of people - they saw anything potentially militarily advantageous to another state in the Pacific as proof that that nation was planning to attack Japan.
It's not to be an ideological alliance, or a friendly one. Both sides plan to eventually betray the other, and both are fully aware of that fact. But for now it's an alliance of convenience - Japan solves her resource problem and ensures a swift victory (or so they think) in China, while Stalin secures his eastern border and vastly increases his sphere of influence in eastern China.
They don't like it at all. But their choices are:France Britian & Italy will just love this.
1. These guys.
2. The Nazis.
3. Another Great War (and look at the size of the new German alliance!).
4. Anarchy and Communism.
They grudgingly prefer the first one. Anyways, all this does is change what had been de facto for half a decade into the de jure.
The new guys are nationalist and fans of realpolitik. They will support whatever groups suit them the most. Mussolini, on the other hand, might be given a looser hand to do what he wants with his foreign policy . . .He has his friend Franco
And with the French Brown Shirts.
We'll have to see. Most likely Speer remains a rather obscure figure without Hitler.
The mood of the Baltics could be best described as cautiously optimistic - they hope the less-intense ideology and anti-Communism of the new regime will work in their favor. The Poles could be best described as cautiously pessimistic - they see the new guys as just as warmongering as the previous ones, if not worse. However, some of the more right-wing elements within Poland have suggested that alliance with Germany is the best course - it would be most likely to preserve Poland and Danzig's territorial integrity, and they (correctly) point out that Germany has achieved more in one month in the realm of European anti-Communist solidarity and Promethism than their own country has in twenty years.
February 1939. Sorry, error on the part of the source map.
the Jews
I'm sorry if i'm being petty, but i just GOT to ask this: [size=+1]What about the Jews?![/size] in 1938 there was the kristalnacht and did they attitude towards the jews changed by the death of hitler?
I'm sorry if i'm being petty, but i just GOT to ask this: [size=+1]What about the Jews?![/size] in 1938 there was the kristalnacht and did they attitude towards the jews changed by the death of hitler?
Why, though, would these guys go out of their way top say, "Jews are OK!"? They are conservative, reactionary, and more than a little antisemitic by your own description. I was expecting a lack of further active anti-Jew policy, but a neglect of what there was.