PC: Yuri Gagarin didn't die by plane crash and moves to the United States post-1991

In short, the scenario of Gagarin coming as goodwill ambassador post 1992 and even living in the USA for a while is A-OK, him taking American citizenship full time - ASB or would require waaay greater changes than you assume.
 
In short, the scenario of Gagarin coming as goodwill ambassador post 1992 and even living in the USA for a while is A-OK, him taking American citizenship full time - ASB or would require waaay greater changes than you assume.

Besides goodwill ambassador I can think of him holding top UN jobs or that of advisorial role within companies like SpaceX - now that would be interesting.

TIL: He has a relative now living in the United States.

https://www.airspacemag.com/space/the-family-he-left-behind-516092/?page=5
 

thorr97

Banned
Still alive and moves to the US post '91? Sure thing. Why not? He could move to the US while still keeping his Russian citizenship. He'd most likely be very much sought after by any number of US and Western aerospace concerns simply to shake his hand and have photos taken with him. The guest speaker circuit would enrich him beyond his wildest dreams.

And if he was still alive in '91 that means he'd have to have developed a career that was more than just being stuffed into a little pressurized can and shot off into space every so often. The USSR being what the USSR was, it'd have been doubtful they would've ever let him in orbit again. So, otherwise safe ground postings would've been it. In the ensuing decades maybe he gets to develop his talents as an administrator or something else - non-strategic and thus not prohibiting travel outside of the USSR/Russia.

Thus, perhaps by the 90s he actually might have a marketable skill in addition to his historic status. Perhaps he'd have also been sought after by the West for his business and government connections in the Soviet / Russian aerospace industry and space program.

Living in the US while running that sort of career would easily have been "a thing" for him.
 
And if he was still alive in '91 that means he'd have to have developed a career that was more than just being stuffed into a little pressurized can and shot off into space every so often. The USSR being what the USSR was, it'd have been doubtful they would've ever let him in orbit again. So, otherwise safe ground postings would've been it. In the ensuing decades maybe he gets to develop his talents as an administrator or something else - non-strategic and thus not prohibiting travel outside of the USSR/Russia.
He'll likely head a Space Program training center, and this position had travel restrictions through 1980ies. Even now, some bureacracy relicts surrounding this job remain - for example, my sister-in-law, a designer for Sukhoi holding, even now has to formally request permission to travel abroad (even when "abroad" means Belarus which is actually met with self-deprecating LOLs at the office responsible for processing these request forms)). That's why I was acting somewhat rude in this thread (for which I apologize) - I multiplied the bureacracy hell a mere design engineer has to go through multiple-fold and thought of worst-case/ASB scenario of Gagarin moving to US full time.

In late 1980ies, with "glasnost" and stuff, he'll likely become frequent abroad traveller, but re. permanent residence - I don't know. I doubt skills in running an astronaut training center are highly marketable given how niche are they. West needed engineers, not administrators IIUC (if I understand correctly;)).
Some of the offices that in OTL were given to Ms Tereshkova would be given to him TTL, so her OTL career can be well extrapolated (hopefully but unlikely minus going in politics and screwing up multiplefold).
 

thorr97

Banned
He'll likely head a Space Program training center, and this position had travel restrictions through 1980ies. Even now, some bureacracy relicts surrounding this job remain - for example, my sister-in-law, a designer for Sukhoi holding, even now has to formally request permission to travel abroad (even when "abroad" means Belarus which is actually met with self-deprecating LOLs at the office responsible for processing these request forms)). That's why I was acting somewhat rude in this thread (for which I apologize) - I multiplied the bureacracy hell a mere design engineer has to go through multiple-fold and thought of worst-case/ASB scenario of Gagarin moving to US full time.

In late 1980ies, with "glasnost" and stuff, he'll likely become frequent abroad traveller. I doubt skills in running an astronaut training center are highly marketable.

Post-USSR things could well have changed some. He'd have been almost sixty in '91. That's not too far from retirement age. Perhaps, after the fall of the Soviet Union and its ensuing economic implosion, the money has dried up such that finding work becomes increasingly difficult even for someone like Gagarin. Not impossible but, difficult. And there out in the West would be plenty of juicy offers. Speaking engagements and so on. If he had fulfilled the "international ambassador" role in the years prior then he'd definitely have the contacts developed already. Plenty of Western companies would've been thrilled to have him on their payroll even if for just the symbolic value of it. That's what a lot of corporate titles are handed 'round for anyway.

With that in mind, and with the decline of Russia's military and aerospace capabilities during those years, why not accept some of those offers. Yes, he'd have to be extensively debriefed and cleared by the security apparatus within the former-USSR. Fair enough. One thing in his favor would be his high status. That'd make it harder for petty bureaucrats to stop him. And so long as he was NOT renouncing his Russian citizenship but just "taking jobs overseas for an interim period" then there'd be less objections.

Also so long as he didn't get work which required security clearances on the US / Western side, there'd be less hassle from the Soviet/Russian security side as well.

Mind, I am not seeing this as Gagarin selling out Russian in any way. Hell, he could probably have been tapped to head up a company that tried steering Western investments into Russian aerospace companies to keep 'em alive and their talent pools intact. He'd have been valuable in doing that and it would've pretty much required living in the West / US to get it going and keep it running.

And damn but, it'd have been awesome to have been able to have met the guy in person!
 
He'll likely head a Space Program training center, and this position had travel restrictions through 1980ies. Even now, some bureacracy relicts surrounding this job remain - for example, my sister-in-law, a designer for Sukhoi holding, even now has to formally request permission to travel abroad (even when "abroad" means Belarus which is actually met with self-deprecating LOLs at the office responsible for processing these request forms)). That's why I was acting somewhat rude in this thread (for which I apologize) - I multiplied the bureacracy hell a mere design engineer has to go through multiple-fold and thought of worst-case/ASB scenario of Gagarin moving to US full time.

In late 1980ies, with "glasnost" and stuff, he'll likely become frequent abroad traveller, but re. permanent residence - I don't know. I doubt skills in running an astronaut training center are highly marketable given how niche are they. West needed engineers, not administrators IIUC (if I understand correctly;)).
Some of the offices that in OTL were given to Ms Tereshkova would be given to him TTL, so her OTL career can be well extrapolated (hopefully but unlikely minus going in politics and screwing up multiplefold).


We haven't looked at oddities coming in part from Gagarin yet. He was quite alcoholic and was caught cheating once by his wife. Feeling embarrassed he jumped out a window that left him a permanent scar in his face.

Since he's relatively more erratic than Leonov or Tereshkova it's possible that he'll trip up one thing or two which got him marginalized as time goes on thus those top jobs like you've said could be passed over. That ironically would've made it easier for him when he finally moves to America and get the green card for whatever reasons after 1991.
 
Since he's relatively more erratic than Leonov or Tereshkova it's possible that he'll be somewhat marginalized in the eyes of the leadership as time goes on thus those top jobs like you've said could be passed over. That ironically would've made it easier for him when he finally moves to America and get the green card for whatever reasons after 1991.
So, sort of Stakhanov-thing, you assume?
Alcoholism is an issue. It may intensify if, for example, he barely survives his disastrous accident, catapults alive but with plane crashed. He'll be permanently banned from doing test flights, and feeling "unjustly grounded" as you've said may attract him to the bottle even moreso. So, he'll be kept around as talking head/symbol, but not let around anything big.
If Gagarin's love of alcohol is open secret, this can create all sorts of problems with Gorbachev anti-alcohol campaign, during Perestroika.
 
If Gagarin's love of alcohol is open secret, this can create all sorts of problems with Gorbachev anti-alcohol campaign, during Perestroika.

Bingo. That's how he might be sidelined until the point of marginalization, then the top jobs would be passed over and suddenly it's more easier for him to get the green card should he chose to do so post-1991.
 
Or he'll be made into talking head by some sleazy types like Zyuganov and CO. He's one of the few living symbols of national pride, and at least a bit more marketable than a barely literate miner Stakhanov:)

Though moving to America in Yeltsin times to head some "cooperation center" or whatever BS is plausible - it removes one possible trump card from Communist desk, and makes Gagarin feel actually useful.
 
Or he'll be made into talking head by some sleazy types like Zyuganov and CO. He's one of the few living symbols of national pride, and at least a bit more marketable than a barely literate miner Stakhanov:)

Though moving to America in Yeltsin times to head some "cooperation center" or whatever BS is plausible - it removes one possible trump card from Communist desk, and makes Gagarin feel actually useful.

Yep lol, but there are medical studies that says that excessive alcoholism can shorten a human's life span so he's likely to die by natural causes mid or late 2000s. It'll be even more interesting if he signed up for space burial services beforehand.


On the other hand if he was in the World Trade Center at a fateful morning of September 11, 2001, then....
 
Yep lol, but there are medical studies that says that excessive alcoholism can shorten a human's life span so he's likely to die by natural causes mid or late 2000s.
Probably the same lifespan as Yeltsin. And by talking head I mean dragging him around for voters attraction in 1992 and 1996.

Also, if he lives in the USA, I think he'll prefer Houston.
 
Besides goodwill ambassador I can think of him holding top UN jobs or that of advisorial role within companies like SpaceX - now that would be interesting.

TIL: He has a relative now living in the United States.

https://www.airspacemag.com/space/the-family-he-left-behind-516092/?page=5
Speaking of relatives, if his daughters move to America, he could get a green card to make visiting them easier. Does that count as US residency even if he spends most of his time in Russia afterwards?
 
Speaking of relatives, if his daughters move to America, he could get a green card to make visiting them easier. Does that count as US residency even if he spends most of his time in Russia afterwards?

From what I've heard of green card holders are required to spend no less than a year outside the US or risk losing it; perhaps that's a definition worth falling back to.
 
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Perhaps - we love Gagarin too much to deny him the presidency.


Well, yes - she also voted to raise the retirement age. I would not even be surprised if she progolsovala for the decriminalization of domestic violence.

It's obvious why people would object to such political stance, but such political stance is hardly treasonous...
 
It's obvious why people would object to such political stance, but such political stance is hardly treasonous...
Well, some people just love to apply "strong" words to some things without thinking about their connotation in another language.
 
As the first Human in space I could see Gargarin possibly being invited to the states for a meeting with the surviving Mercury Seven. In 1990
Kalashinkov came to the US and met his Cold War opposite Eugene Stoner. I could see Gargarin perhaps being presented an award by Senator John Glenn.
Gargarin and Terseshkova might do a airshow tour together signing autographs.
 
From what I've heard of green card holders are required to spend no less than a year outside the US or risk losing it; perhaps that's a definition worth falling back to.
Actually, speaking from experience of relatives, they just need to visit the US for a week or so every once in a while (the time period is either six months or a year).
 
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