PC: Would a Habsburg Second Son Be Able to Keep the Netherlands Together?

I think if Karl V (who she wanted to wed) or Felipe II (who Karl offered) is off the market, Karl might push the Ferdinands as the only available marriage-age men in the family (Karl of Steyr is there, but he's a smidge young).



ICR where I read it but the main reason Maria refused (apparently) was because it would curtail her freedom or somesuch. Henry's death had little to do with it, since the proposal was made twice - once in the mid-1540s when Maria Manuela died (Karl turned his attention to the French girls @isabella mentioned, but also to Lady Elizabeth Tudor and Archduchess Margarethe of Austria (daughter of Ferdinand I)), and again in the 1550s (after all those matches had fallen through the carpet) before Felipe II remarried (which is when Mary Tudor became the most eligible bachelorette in Christendom, and it's probably then that wiki means). Unless I/the author misunderstood and there was only one proposal.
Karl will surely try to add England to the Habsburg’ domains in any way who will not cost them too much: the problem here is who both Charles and Ferdinand (who will both satisfy the wish of Mary to marry a man of at least her same ranking as Charles is the Holy Roman Emperor and King of Spain, Naples and Sicily while Ferdinand is Kings of the Romans and King of Hungary and Bohemia) are widowers who had zero wish to remarry and Ferdinand’s heir Maximilian is already off the market, so if also Philip is off the market the younger Ferdinand will be the only man available but persuading Mary to accept him will not be easy...
 
So, whoever Karl leaves Burgundy to, will most likely be offered in some form or fashion to Mary Tudor if she's available. But, let's assume for argument's sake that the English part of the equation isn't in present (Tudor male line survives somehow or Mary is married before she becomes queen). I can't see that if Edward VI marries Karl's daughter Juana, that Karl V will grant Burgundy as a dowry (and more than he would've handed it over had Maria married Angoulême).

Which brings us back to the original question, if the south is going Protestant (but loyalist), and the north is staying Catholic (but not necessarily Habsburg) how might things play out. I would iamgine that if the infante (not sure what regal title he would have, the shorthand would probably be "duke of Brabant" or "of Burgundy") uses loyalist troops from the south to "restore order" in the north, it will result in him being viewed as a "tyrant" in the north, probably with future revolts down the line. If he doesn't he will be seen as a "weak" ruler that any and all concessions can be wrung from
 
So, what I'm picking up here is that had Felipe II not married Mary of England, in lieu of a second son, Karl would have (most likely) given the Low Countries to Maria and Maximilian?
Yes as Philip had always seen them as the most sacrificable part of his future realm and he was too much centered on Spain while Maria and Ferdinand would have likely ruled and understod it better

So, whoever Karl leaves Burgundy to, will most likely be offered in some form or fashion to Mary Tudor if she's available. But, let's assume for argument's sake that the English part of the equation isn't in present (Tudor male line survives somehow or Mary is married before she becomes queen). I can't see that if Edward VI marries Karl's daughter Juana, that Karl V will grant Burgundy as a dowry (and more than he would've handed it over had Maria married Angoulême).

Which brings us back to the original question, if the south is going Protestant (but loyalist), and the north is staying Catholic (but not necessarily Habsburg) how might things play out. I would iamgine that if the infante (not sure what regal title he would have, the shorthand would probably be "duke of Brabant" or "of Burgundy") uses loyalist troops from the south to "restore order" in the north, it will result in him being viewed as a "tyrant" in the north, probably with future revolts down the line. If he doesn't he will be seen as a "weak" ruler that any and all concessions can be wrung from
Well the point is who Burgundy will likely used to persuade Mary Tudor to marry in the house of Austria... Charles, Duke of Orléans likely choised Anna and Milan over Maria and Netherlands but the peace of Crépy forced Charles V to hand off the promised dowry together with the bride (and really making the younger son of the King of France so powerful as he would also receive many lands from his father was a good thing for the Emperor as the relationship between Charles and Henri was bad and would likely became worse after the wedding of the first).
Sure Netherlands is unlikely to be left to Juana and Edward VI but that is because their wedding itself is unlikely as they both can make better alliances (Juana was more-or-less always destined to Portugal while Edward is more interested in either Mary Stuart or Elisabeth of France)...

Well with a proper local ruler or at least a ruler interested in keeping the lands and population happy enough the OTL rebellion of north would be butterflied as they were caused mainly by the misrule of Philip II and his inability you understand country and men plus the fact who Netherlands was forced to serve Spanish interest first and to provide money for Philip’s wars. With a better rulership from either a locally based infante or a governor from Vienna who will likely be an Archduke himself rebellions will be much easier to sedate and considering who Maximilian and Maria had six surviving sons (plus four daughters) I can easily see Netherlands destined to their second son and again with a local ruler is unlikely the north will secede.
Sure Archduke Ernest or his eldest son here is likely to become Emperor after Rudolf, but Netherlands will be again either a prized (and well governed) possession of the Emperor or used as secondogeniture
 
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Well with a proper local ruler or at least a ruler interested in keeping the lands and population happy enough the OTL rebellion of north would be butterflied as they were caused mainly by the misrule of Philip II and his inability you understand country and men plus the fact who Netherlands was forced to serve Spanish interest first and to provide money for Philip’s wars. With a better rulership from either a locally based infante or a governor from Vienna who will likely be an Archduke himself rebellions will be much easier to sedate and considering who Maximilian and Maria had six surviving sons (plus four daughters) I can easily see Netherlands destined to their second son and again with a local ruler is unlikely the north will secede.
Sure Archduke Ernest or his eldest son here is likely to become Emperor after Rudolf, but Netherlands will be again either a prized (and well governed) possession of the Emperor or used as secondogeniture

I could see that if Ernst were to succeed as emperor, the Netherlands would probably try to prevent a repeat performance of "that" accident and probably insist (once it becomes apparent that the duke will succeed as emperor) on the abdication as duke once archduke-infante becomes emperor in favour of his second son (same way that Spanish and Imperial crowns could not be joined under Leopold I's house treaty of the 1700s IIRC) since weren't there still some parts of the Habsburg inheritance in the Low Countries that weren't imperial territories after 1550? Cause then cue another war with France.
 
I could see that if Ernst were to succeed as emperor, the Netherlands would probably try to prevent a repeat performance of "that" accident and probably insist (once it becomes apparent that the duke will succeed as emperor) on the abdication as duke once archduke-infante becomes emperor in favour of his second son (same way that Spanish and Imperial crowns could not be joined under Leopold I's house treaty of the 1700s IIRC) since weren't there still some parts of the Habsburg inheritance in the Low Countries that weren't imperial territories after 1550? Cause then cue another war with France.
Well here Netherlands will not have too much resentment to be ruled by the Emperor if Maximilian II and Ernst’s rules as Emperor do not damage the land and it’s interests too much and the Emperor listen to them... Maximilian (I) was at least tolerated and Karl (V) was loved so the Emperor need to give some positions in its court to men from Netherlands and do not appoint many foreigns in Netherlands, listen the representatives of Netherlands, do not try to impose his will on them with force and spend time there and is unlikely who Netherlands will go in full revolt against the Emperor and his rule or will try to forbidden an union with Austria
 
I like a scenario with Charles V remarried after the death of Isabella with a German Princess I like Amalia of Cleves (we Butterfly away her Lutheran sympathies) A Boy born of this Wedding would habe more support in the Low Countries he is one of them.
She could bring Gelre as a wedding gift so no war with William the Rich
 
I like a scenario with Charles V remarried after the death of Isabella with a German Princess I like Amalia of Cleves (we Butterfly away her Lutheran sympathies) A Boy born of this Wedding would habe more support in the Low Countries he is one of them.
She could bring Gelre as a wedding gift so no war with William the Rich
A boy or also a daughter who will likely married to a son/grandson of Ferdinand...
 
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