PC/WI: The Ostsiedlung Continues After the 1300s?

CaliGuy

Banned
Would it have been plausible for the Ostsiedlung to continue/resume after the end of the Black Death in the 1300s?

If so, what would the results of this have been?
 

CaliGuy

Banned
Also, for the record, this map shows the extent of the Ostsiedlung in our TL:

http://pre07.deviantart.net/553e/th...n_the_middle_ages_by_arminius1871-d9j2uca.png

german_eastern_settlement_in_the_middle_ages_by_arminius1871-d9j2uca.png
 
It didn´t really stop after 1300, it kept going for about until WW1 really, in some form or another. At one point though, around the 15th century the Eastern countries reach a level of population and development than didn´t really need more settlers and were in some way adversarial to countries that actively brought German settlers(Commonwealth vs the Teutonic order), maybe just have the HRE overpower Poland and you got that.
 
It didn´t really stop after 1300, it kept going for about until WW1 really, in some form or another. At one point though, around the 15th century the Eastern countries reach a level of population and development than didn´t really need more settlers and were in some way adversarial to countries that actively brought German settlers(Commonwealth vs the Teutonic order), maybe just have the HRE overpower Poland and you got that.

A lot of the later German migrations had different causes though, didn't they? Like the birth of the Volga Germans, because Catherine the Great invited them, or a lot of the German populations in former Austria-Hungary which only started in the 18th century (aside from the older ones listed on that map). Danube Germans and Bukovina Germans were later than those, yet among the largest proportionately.

So with this in mind, you'd need more rulers willing to invite Germans to their land to settle. After all, they're industrious people, aren't they? You mention Poland, but having Germans settle the frontier to the south (the "Wild Fields" in nowadays Ukraine) against the Tatars and later the Turks might be interesting and plausible. Germans already were there to some degree OTL (later), but that seems a plausible outlet for early modern German colonisation.
 

CaliGuy

Banned
A lot of the later German migrations had different causes though, didn't they? Like the birth of the Volga Germans, because Catherine the Great invited them, or a lot of the German populations in former Austria-Hungary which only started in the 18th century (aside from the older ones listed on that map). Danube Germans and Bukovina Germans were later than those, yet among the largest proportionately.

So with this in mind, you'd need more rulers willing to invite Germans to their land to settle. After all, they're industrious people, aren't they? You mention Poland, but having Germans settle the frontier to the south (the "Wild Fields" in nowadays Ukraine) against the Tatars and later the Turks might be interesting and plausible. Germans already were there to some degree OTL (later), but that seems a plausible outlet for early modern German colonisation.
How many Germans do you think would have lived in Volhynia and the Wild Fields had they began immigrating there several centuries earlier than in our TL?
 
How many Germans do you think would have lived in Volhynia and the Wild Fields had they began immigrating there several centuries earlier than in our TL?

If they didn't get completely mauled by the Tatars, they'd make up a 20-30% minority once the Slavs settle there, easily. They'd need the martial spirit the Volga Germans had--Volga Germans compared their fights against the Central Asian Turks to the fight against the American Indians. Although the Wild Fields (not so much Volhynia) in that era are a bit worse than the Volga area of Catherine the Great's era. Probably you'd need the full force of Poland-Lithuania brought down in that area, with Germans as a major force to settle there. As protection against the Ottoman Empire. Maybe focus Polish expansion there instead of eastwards toward Russia. Which probably requires a Russia-nerf to prevent anyone as dangerous as Ivan the Terrible from emerging, and probably a lot of other factors, because a strong Russia is more threatening than some Tatars raiding the frontier in the south--which means the problem is getting Poland-Lithuania (or honestly, the Grand Duchy of Lithuania could do this too) to act in this manner with the issues they faced.
 
Unite Germany early on, expanding east will be easier for it than trying to expand west or south and then it simply needs to encourage people to settle there.
 
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Instead of turning Lutheran and secularizing, Teutonic Knights are resettled to Podolia then Lithuanian part of modern Ukraine (to avoid repeat of Prussian story they are opened to Poles and Lithuanians, and become Polish royal order, with the King being the Grand Master). They build castles, towns, roads etc. Instead of magnate-led the colonization of Ukraine is led by this royal order, which brings settlers from the German states and Netherlands. Bonus points - less powerful magates, possibly more powerful king.
 
In my Chaos TL, the Black Death happens decades later due to Genghis dying earlier. So the Ostsiedlung continues for some time, Lithuania is crushed and assimilated (sorry), and afterwards they expand further into the Russian principalities (not sure how realistic this is).
 
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