PC/WI: SS United States converted to Presidential Yacht?

WILDGEESE

Gone Fishin'
What if after her retirement from Trans-Atlantic use, the SS United States was converted to a Presidential Yacht?

It could be used by the POTUS and his staff as a more leisurely way of transit if there's no time sensitivity.

I'm supposing it would need to have the following capacity for

2 x Marine SeaKing helicopters
A Marine Company detachment
A full Presidential motorcade (loaded & unloaded via a side ramp when in port)
A full Secret Service complement
A full Comm's suite such as carried later on in the USAF's E-4 NAACP
A full crew so it could be used in the same way as the Royal Yacht Britannia in trade and diplomatic talks when in foreign ports.

Would this be possible?

Would it work?

Would the US public agree to it's funding?

Regards filers
 

SsgtC

Banned
Financially, not a chance. SSUS cost as much to operate as a Forestall class aircraft carrier. Which is not surprising when you consider that they share the same powerplant.
 
No, just no. US Presidential Yachts have been small coastal boats for recreational use.

SS United States is a Blue Riband winning ocean liner.

It is too big, too expensive, and not needed.

Just for comparison:

HMY Britannia:

Tonnage: 5,769 GT
Length: 412 ft (126 m)
Beam: 55 ft (17 m)
Height: 123 ft (37 m) to top of mainmast
Draught: 15 ft (4.6 m)

USS Sequoia

Displacement: 90 long tons (91 t)
Length: 104 ft (32 m)
Beam: 18 ft 2 in (5.54 m)
Draft: 4 ft 5 in (1.35 m)
Speed: 12 knots (22 km/h; 14 mph)

SS United States

Tonnage: 53,330 GRT
Displacement: 45,400 tons (at design draft); 47,264 tons (at maximum draft)
Length: 990 ft (302 m) (overall); 940 ft (287 m) (waterline)
Beam: 101.5 ft (30.9 m) maximum
Draft: 31.25 ft (9.53 m) (design); 32.33 ft (9.85 m) (maximum)
Depth: 75 ft (23 m)


SS United States is several orders of magnitude larger than HMY Britannia let alone the last Presidential Yacht.
 
Last edited:

Why, I think someone already sketched this out, but the guy was doing it for a contest so he had to add the Typhon combat system:

CCG-3_USS_United_States_1977.png


Ugh. Re-scaled. Click here: http://shipbucket.com/wiki/images/9/97/CCG-3_USS_United_States_1977.png

"CCG-3 USS United States Refit from P6 S4 DS1 (SS United States) under Ship Characteristics Board program 407.11

Following the decommissioning of the USS Northampton and USS Wright in 1970, and the planned eventual retirement of the command space equipped missile cruisers at the end of the decade - a likely retirement without replacement as the procurement of the nuclear powered guided missile cruisers was slower than what would be needed for a one to one replacement cycle, the United States Navy began investigating options to cover the expected gap in fleet command and Continuity of Government capabilities.

It was the observation of the large black hull by a young navy office stationed at Newport News, Virginia that began the long process that saw the ocean liner converted into a command ship. Following several years of planning, and much debate in congress, approval for the 'conversion' of the ocean liner into a 'self escorting command ship' was authorized in 1974. Once authorized, work proceeded quickly, and 'Big U' was commissioned as "USS United States" on 4 July 1977. The decision to move from the original proposal for a command ship to a 'self escorting command ship' was the result of a desire to take the most advantage of the size and speed of the existing hull. The increase in cost however ensured that Big U's sister (SS President Washington, known colloquially as Big Double-U) would never receive a similar refit.

Mechanical: 8 Babcock & Wilcox boilers at 925psi and 975F 4 Westinghouse double-reduction turbines (240kshp) Top speed 'Greater than 35 knots sustained with a range in excess of 7000 nautical miles at sustained high speed cruise' Displacement: In excess of 45k tons Length: 990 feet Beam: 101.5 feet Draft: 32 feet 4 inches.


Sensors: Radar: SPG-59 (10k element version) SPS-43 (long range Air search, great for looking like a carrier to the Red Banner Fleet ESM) SPS-10 (surface Search) Assorted surface search sets

Sonar: SQS-23

ESM/ECM: SLQ-17 (Active Jamming) WLR-1 (Direction Finding) WLR-3 (Direction Finding) ULQ-6 (Active Jamming)

Armaments: Mk 10 Mod 2 GMLS (2x80) for Typhon-LR & Advanced ASROC/SUBROC replacement SEA MAULER (4x9) for CIWS T-249 (4x 37mm Gatling cannon) for CIWS Mk 32 SVTT for 12.74" torpedoes

Comms: ALL OF THE COMMS (Systems roughly equal those aboard both a carrier and an LCC in HF, VHF, UHF, and SATCOM missions)

Embarked Craft: SH-3 (x3) for ASW and transport. In-deck hanger provides space for up to four large helicopters. 40' Utility boat (x2) 40' Personnel boat (x2) 26' Personnel boat (x1) 26' Utility boat (x1) LCM-8 (x1) Enough Liferafts"

Totally absurd, and the guy who came up with it should probably be under supervision.
 
Unless the president have a mortal fear to fly and need such a ship... doable but very hard to do it
 
Why, I think someone already sketched this out, but the guy was doing it for a contest so he had to add the Typhon combat system:

CCG-3_USS_United_States_1977.png


Ugh. Re-scaled. Click here: http://shipbucket.com/wiki/images/9/97/CCG-3_USS_United_States_1977.png

"CCG-3 USS United States Refit from P6 S4 DS1 (SS United States) under Ship Characteristics Board program 407.11

Following the decommissioning of the USS Northampton and USS Wright in 1970, and the planned eventual retirement of the command space equipped missile cruisers at the end of the decade - a likely retirement without replacement as the procurement of the nuclear powered guided missile cruisers was slower than what would be needed for a one to one replacement cycle, the United States Navy began investigating options to cover the expected gap in fleet command and Continuity of Government capabilities.

It was the observation of the large black hull by a young navy office stationed at Newport News, Virginia that began the long process that saw the ocean liner converted into a command ship. Following several years of planning, and much debate in congress, approval for the 'conversion' of the ocean liner into a 'self escorting command ship' was authorized in 1974. Once authorized, work proceeded quickly, and 'Big U' was commissioned as "USS United States" on 4 July 1977. The decision to move from the original proposal for a command ship to a 'self escorting command ship' was the result of a desire to take the most advantage of the size and speed of the existing hull. The increase in cost however ensured that Big U's sister (SS President Washington, known colloquially as Big Double-U) would never receive a similar refit.

Mechanical: 8 Babcock & Wilcox boilers at 925psi and 975F 4 Westinghouse double-reduction turbines (240kshp) Top speed 'Greater than 35 knots sustained with a range in excess of 7000 nautical miles at sustained high speed cruise' Displacement: In excess of 45k tons Length: 990 feet Beam: 101.5 feet Draft: 32 feet 4 inches.


Sensors: Radar: SPG-59 (10k element version) SPS-43 (long range Air search, great for looking like a carrier to the Red Banner Fleet ESM) SPS-10 (surface Search) Assorted surface search sets

Sonar: SQS-23

ESM/ECM: SLQ-17 (Active Jamming) WLR-1 (Direction Finding) WLR-3 (Direction Finding) ULQ-6 (Active Jamming)

Armaments: Mk 10 Mod 2 GMLS (2x80) for Typhon-LR & Advanced ASROC/SUBROC replacement SEA MAULER (4x9) for CIWS T-249 (4x 37mm Gatling cannon) for CIWS Mk 32 SVTT for 12.74" torpedoes

Comms: ALL OF THE COMMS (Systems roughly equal those aboard both a carrier and an LCC in HF, VHF, UHF, and SATCOM missions)

Embarked Craft: SH-3 (x3) for ASW and transport. In-deck hanger provides space for up to four large helicopters. 40' Utility boat (x2) 40' Personnel boat (x2) 26' Personnel boat (x1) 26' Utility boat (x1) LCM-8 (x1) Enough Liferafts"

Totally absurd, and the guy who came up with it should probably be under supervision.


If we are going to go for pipe dreams I’d rather have SS United States crossing the Atlantic on a weekly passenger schedule with RMS Queen Mary.


5349723281_9f5a03e934_b.jpg

 
Last edited:

MatthewB

Banned
Wouldn’t a USN warship suffice? If the cruisers USS Augusta and USS Quincy were good enough for FDR, today’s POTUS can make due with a Ticonderoga.
 
If we are going to go for pipe dreams I’d rather have SS United States crossing the Atlantic on a weekly passenger schedule with RMS Queen Mary.

How about a refit for a new bow that lets her run weekly San Francisco-Honolulu Services by herself?
SS_United_States_2010.png


refit of the sole P6 S4 DS1 class ship occured in the mid 2000s

Updated boilers and reconditioned turbines would allow for a power output of 300k shp (the ship’s original power plant was limited to 260k shp). Three or four of her boilers have been replaced with prototype Fuel-Cell boilers. These boilers are similar in structure to a typical firetube unit, but with the insides of the firetubes replaced with a linear stack of solid oxide fuel cells. The working temperature of these fuel cells can reach 1100°C, and while the electricity is used to power the shipboard electrical systems (relegating the diesel generator sets for use in emergencies or when shore power is not available) the waste heat will be used to drive the screws. When this is matched with a new bow, featuring an underwater bulb, the sustained speed of the ship is increased to 36-37 knots. This new bow replaces the existing structure ahead of the forward collision bulkhead and essentially adds a second collision bulkhead forward, allowing the existing crew quarters near the bow to still be used, even with improvements to safety regulations that have occurred over the prior 60 years.

The additional speed provided by the more powerful engines and new bow allow the ship to make her scheduled transit run from San Francisco Bay to Honolulu Harbor in about 60 hours. The quickness of the transit, combined with rapid turn-around times at each end provided for weekly service to the islands. Even with the higher speed, the improved efficiency of the new boilers would result in a ship that could make the entire round trip on a single load of fuel, while offloading 5,500 short tons in Honolulu, further reducing the subsidy needed to operate the ship.

This service provided is not limited to conventional passenger travel and the forward and aft holds of the ship have been refurbished with an automated car lift similar to those found in Japanese car parks. The system allows for a 42 second maximum cycle time providing for rapid loading and unloading of the 483 standard automobiles, 183 motorcycles, 200 bicycles, and 50 kayaks that can be embarked. In the event that the ship is called into military service the lifts, each capable of moving 28 short tons, can be used to move Stryker combat vehicles to and from the cargo holds. This capacity is limited however by the relatively high location of the RO-RO doors on the ship, and a design that was not intended for vertical haul-away. If the ship were to be called into military or disaster relief service, the roofs of the cargo areas can be used as helicopter landing areas, providing a total of four spots.

While the most notable feature on the pre-refit ship were the massive funnels, here their profile is reduced by the raised f’o’csle, the additional decks added to the main super structure, and the massive new block added aft. It is these superstructure additions that add 104 balcony cabins and 29 non-balcony cabins, increasing her passenger capacity from 1928 to 2347 people. To accommodate this increase in passengers (and corresponding increase in crew), a quartet of new lifeboat stations and a quartet of tenders are added aft. While they block much of the view from the aft cabins, it is these additional lifesaving craft and the inclusion of many rafts under davits that allow for the total evacuation of the ship from one side (very useful in the event that the ship takes on a significant list such as what happened to Costa Concordia). While almost the entire crew would have to evacuate via raft, the US manning requirements as laid out in the Passenger Vessel Services Act means that a level of competency not otherwise guaranteed on passenger ships can be assured here.

While the safety of her passengers is of paramount importance, not to be ignored are her accommodations. Passengers embark in one of two classes

  • Travel Class, with amenities like the cabins on the Alaska Marine Highway System
And

  • Cruise Class, with modern cruise liner amenities.
Further changes include the removal of the two pools deep in the ship and their replacement with two pools on the upper decks that can be protected with sliding glass roofs. There would be 6 restaurants:

  • Travel Class Standard, offering food sous-vide and open 24hrs; Cruise Class Standard, offering food sous-vide but with a French professional chef specializing in high-end sous-vide dishes;
  • The First Class Dining Hall, available for an upcharge to regular Cruise passengers, free for Cruise class suite passengers.
  • An Asian Fusion bistro and Hawaiian Cafe (Hawaiian cuisine), both available to both classes at upcharge, suite passengers free,
and

  • Travel Class Fine Dining Bistro as an American food upscale alternative for them (at upcharge).
Two lounges, one for each class, with drinks also served in the entertainment forums. Coffee cafes separate for both classes and a sushi bar of combined class. All entertainment venues are shared, but there is a private reading room for Cruise Class. There would be two show-halls in the old theatres and a casino as the primary entertainment beyond the swimming rooms. Full provided childcare. And a rock climbing wall integrated into an old cargo trunk for the more adventurous. She would operate in international waters and pay appropriate casino taxes to the state she is registered in for gambling that occurs in international waters. There would be a 10-stall mini-store arrangement shopping complex aft inside of the balcony cabins, onboard styling salon, massage parlour, a game room just ahead of the lower of the two pools, the two entertainment venues as noted, a casino, a total of 6 restaurants and two coffee houses, two lounges, and the sushi bar; two pools, rock climbing wall, and the first class reading room and childcare facilities, for the common spaces (With some segregation based on class), though that's more to insure a cruise experience for the people paying for the trip as a cruise rather than getting A-to-B like Travel class.

In closing I would like to extend a thank you to both Jan Scholtens, and Mrs. Reilly-Collette's wife for their help with the project.
 

SsgtC

Banned
@TimothyC just one thing. United States was already capable of sustained speeds in excess of 36 knots. Her official top speed was listed as 35 knots, though she would regularly run at 38+. The USN (who helped design her and subsidized her operation) classified her actual top speed though it's believed to have been in excess of 40 knots
 
@TimothyC just one thing. United States was already capable of sustained speeds in excess of 36 knots. Her official top speed was listed as 35 knots, though she would regularly run at 38+. The USN (who helped design her and subsidized her operation) classified her actual top speed though it's believed to have been in excess of 40 knots
Ehhhhh.

First of all, it wasn't the USN who subsidized her, but the Maritime Administration, and while she was certainly capable of running in excess of 35 knots, here she has to run at 37ish as the floor all of the time, even with a dirty bottom when she's 10 months out of drydock (which the above would have seen happen once a year). As for speed, we know her powerplant, and her hull curves, so we can ballpark her speed, and from that I have a hard time thinking it's 40 knots.
 

SsgtC

Banned
Ehhhhh.

First of all, it wasn't the USN who subsidized her, but the Maritime Administration, and while she was certainly capable of running in excess of 35 knots, here she has to run at 37ish as the floor all of the time, even with a dirty bottom when she's 10 months out of drydock (which the above would have seen happen once a year). As for speed, we know her powerplant, and her hull curves, so we can ballpark her speed, and from that I have a hard time thinking it's 40 knots.
Check out the Blue Riband run that United States did. She averaged 35.59 knots. To have averaged that speed, she would have had to been running at 37-38 knots for most of the passage.
 
If you really wanted to do an upgrade on the powerplant, pull out the boilers and complete power train then install the Nuc plant from a Nimitz class carrier with a couple of marine diesels so you have hotel power with out needing to run the reactors when at dock or for times you might need the reactors down for a bit. Then lets really see what this ship could do speed wise.
 
Check out the Blue Riband run that United States did. She averaged 35.59 knots. To have averaged that speed, she would have had to been running at 37-38 knots for most of the passage.

The time is from lighthouse to lighthouse so are are already moving when you start. Also, as I noted, Here she needs to run over a knot faster, even when the hull is dirty from 10 months of organic build-up. Hence the improved boilers and new bow. As noted the new Bow is also there to allow continued use of the crew quarters forward, by adding an additional collision bulkhead (this extra bulkhead is in fact the primary use).

If you really wanted to do an upgrade on the powerplant, pull out the boilers and complete power train then install the Nuc plant from a Nimitz class carrier with a couple of marine diesels so you have hotel power with out needing to run the reactors when at dock or for times you might need the reactors down for a bit. Then lets really see what this ship could do speed wise.
Big U wasn't designed with the structural supports for a nuclear powerplant. Her unbuilt half-sisters the America II and the President Washington might have had those fittings however had they been built (they were under consideration in the late 1950 for United States Lines as Big U's running mate and for American President Lines on Trans-Pac services (supporting the WW2 era P2s) respectively.
 
Top