PC/WI: Longsteet gets to Gettysburg on Day 1 on Hagerstown Road

Right, I just mean how fast the Union army marches vs how fast the ANV marches; the ANV doesn't have to march faster (even though that probably possible), since they got a head start and this TL eases the burden on the individual roads.
 

Spengler

Banned
Already answered.




Then show the time when Lee's forces in this scenario move "too fast". Use numbers rather than just saying something's impossible.
Yeah Saph look as others have said elsewhere. Snapping your fingers and saying just because is not an actual answer so I need something beyond you and dandan just saying "just because". Also I already did show them moving to fast partly beingthat their being lead in new formations with new commanders. Not that you'll accept that you both are rather fixated at stacking the deck as much as possible. Alright Dandan if the deck is so utterly stacked as you made it and you hobnob the union so that everything that can go wrong does, yes the sainted Lee and the gallant johny rebs can have their successful campaign. ALl itt took was having Meade act completely out off character and ignoring the fact that the AONV was undergoing a reorganization and then also suddenly changing the marching speeds beyond believable. Finally suggesting that union cavalry that had just fought Brandy station was somehow completely incapable.
 

Saphroneth

Banned
Yeah Saph look as others have said elsewhere. Snapping your fingers and saying just because is not an actual answer so I need something beyond you and dandan just saying "just because". Also I already did show them moving to fast partly beingthat their being lead in new formations with new commanders.
At what point are they moving too fast, how fast and how far?
I apologize if you've stated this before (with dates and numbers) but if so I've simply missed it. And Dandan's been good enough to give a complete account of this ATL battle, including why the decisions are being taken - so it behooves you to not keep accusing us of handwaving.
 
I'll put this in syllogism form.

Major Premise: Armies march faster when there are fewer men and wagons on each road
Minor Premise: Ewell's corps will have fewer men and wagons congesting the road to Chambersburg (then Carlisle, then Harrisburg)

Conclusion: Ewell's corps will get to Harrisburg faster than OTL

Can you please point to the handwave for me?
 
It should be pointed out that the correspondence Donald J Stoker provides in his book on Civil War strategy indicates that Meade intended his army to attack Lee and advance on Gettysburg before he knew there were defensible heights to the south of town, and indeed before either army was engaged. Every general in both armies knew frontal assaults weren't ideal, but every one of them commanded troops to make them anyway, because sometimes that's what the situation calls for. If Lee's army is separated, and he intends to attack it, sooner is going to be better than later, since Ewell's column is coming down from the north on his right flank.
 

Saphroneth

Banned
A minor, no-likely-butterfly alteration to the campaign which could help make the attacks more successful is if the AoNV's cannister load was a little lower and their shell load a bit higher. IIRC they crossed the Potomac with 200 rounds per gun, heavily weighted to cannister as was normal in North America, and used a lot of the shot/shell before the OTL Third Day of Gettysburg.
 
It's interesting; Paddy Griffith relates that some gunners actually preferred to fire solid shot at close range, since the tremendous crash of a solid iron ball would terrify the approaching infantry.

It'd be interesting to see data on ammunition use by the artillery; TTL, they might be running low after breaking up Meade's mass assault on July 2.
 

Saphroneth

Banned
It's interesting; Paddy Griffith relates that some gunners actually preferred to fire solid shot at close range, since the tremendous crash of a solid iron ball would terrify the approaching infantry.

It'd be interesting to see data on ammunition use by the artillery; TTL, they might be running low after breaking up Meade's mass assault on July 2.
Something worth thinking about is that a cannonball or cannister stand scoring a single hit (on average) is about as effective as two companies of Union troops firing. Though the stats from Griffith suggest that 10% of casualties inflicted by the Union are due to artillery and 20% for the Confederacy.
 
I definitely think raw casualties are only part of the equation. Sure, their fire might only kill 10% of them, but if it makes their formation come apart, if it makes the men stall as they're about to carry the position at the points of their bayonets, and the defenders can keep pouring musket volleys into them as they turn back, that's very much the artillery's work.
 

Saphroneth

Banned
I definitely think raw casualties are only part of the equation. Sure, their fire might only kill 10% of them, but if it makes their formation come apart, if it makes the men stall as they're about to carry the position at the points of their bayonets, and the defenders can keep pouring musket volleys into them as they turn back, that's very much the artillery's work.
Yes, the morale impact of a pound of gunpowder being expended by a cannon is greater than that of the same pound being used by riflemen - there's little reason to question that.
 

Spengler

Banned
I'll put this in syllogism form.

Major Premise: Armies march faster when there are fewer men and wagons on each road
Minor Premise: Ewell's corps will have fewer men and wagons congesting the road to Chambersburg (then Carlisle, then Harrisburg)

Conclusion: Ewell's corps will get to Harrisburg faster than OTL

Can you please point to the handwave for me?
Yes and they need those wagons being their on the offensive in enemy territory.
 
No, they don't, because those wagons are carrying supplies for a different corps. Longstreet's wagons taking up road space don't help Ewell's men advance; they have their own wagons for that.
 
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