PC/WI 6 x "Fearless" class instead of 2 plus 4 "Round Table" class?

WILDGEESE

Gone Fishin'
Instead of building 2 "Fearless" class LPD's plus 4 "Round Table" LSL's, the RN had 6 "Fearless" class built instead?

Would this be possible?

Would the LPD's do the LSL's role any better?

How better or worse would the 6 LPD's perform in the Falklands operation?, especially as each could carry 5 SeaKing/Wessex.

Regards filers
 
They Perform Completely Different Missions

As stated, the LPDs and LSLs perform completely different missions so they aren't interchangeable. A LSL is designed to beach itself and unload its tanks and vehicles directly onto the shore. They were the follow-on to the WWII LSTs.

You can't beach an LPD. Well, you could one time but after that it wouldn't float very well. The LPD is designed to carry smaller landing craft and allow them to be loaded in fairly controlled conditions. You avoid the Royal Marines climbing down cargo nets into landing craft that are bobbing around next to the hull. This is all done in the landing well.

If you bought only 6 LPDs you would have an unbalanced force and would still need something to carry the tanks and other larger vehicles to the shore.
 
As stated, the LPDs and LSLs perform completely different missions so they aren't interchangeable. A LSL is designed to beach itself and unload its tanks and vehicles directly onto the shore. They were the follow-on to the WWII LSTs.
True, but how vital is the ability to beach? The US Navy seems to be currently standardising their amphibious forces on the Wasp and America-class LHD/LHAs alongside the San Antonio-class LPDs none of which have the ability to do so. Now granted that's with helicopters and LCACs but it suggests that it can be worked around. Britain was the world leader with hovercrafts, perhaps as a point of divergence find some way to advance their development?
 
Ironically, the one time (Falklands) the ROUND TABLE class were used in anger, the terrain was unsuitable for them to beach.

Conceptually, they were more similar to AKAs than to LSTs; the beaching capability was intended to give them flexibility in loading and unloading. Without wishing to sound facetious, the designation of Landing Ship, Logistics wasn't made idly. Their small size was a deliberate choice so that they could operate in confined waters, and they were quite a bit larger than LSTs.

It's hard to see additional assault ships similar to FEARLESS being suitable in their role. However, their eventual replacements - the BAY class 'LSD's, which are really LKDs - are of similar size to an assault ship or USN attack transport. So, let's assume that the RN goes for four ships of roughly the same size and configuration as the contemporary CHARLESTON class. Small dock aft to handle a single LCU Mk 9, additional landing craft carried on deck, permanent flight deck but no hangar.

Such ships would actually be better suited for RN operations East of Suez, and could work comfortably with the FEARLESS class assault ships and BULWARK class commando carriers. How unfortunate that the role disappeared....

In the Falklands, they'd be quite useful. Assuming that the ATLANTIC CONVEYOR is still hit, one ship (being larger) is detailed to ferry the Guards regiments to Bluff Cove. With a single, bigger target, at least five bombs hit, and the unfortunate assault logistic transport will probably go the way of SIR GALAHAD, causing severe loss of life - probably worse than OTL, given the concentration of personnel and damage.

It's likely that a replacement is ordered, and that all four ships are kept rather than OTL's drawdown from six to four LSLs, being replaced in the mid-2000s by BAY class ships.
 

WILDGEESE

Gone Fishin'
Ironically, the one time (Falklands) the ROUND TABLE class were used in anger, the terrain was unsuitable for them to beach.

Conceptually, they were more similar to AKAs than to LSTs; the beaching capability was intended to give them flexibility in loading and unloading. Without wishing to sound facetious, the designation of Landing Ship, Logistics wasn't made idly. Their small size was a deliberate choice so that they could operate in confined waters, and they were quite a bit larger than LSTs.

It's hard to see additional assault ships similar to FEARLESS being suitable in their role. However, their eventual replacements - the BAY class 'LSD's, which are really LKDs - are of similar size to an assault ship or USN attack transport. So, let's assume that the RN goes for four ships of roughly the same size and configuration as the contemporary CHARLESTON class. Small dock aft to handle a single LCU Mk 9, additional landing craft carried on deck, permanent flight deck but no hangar.

Such ships would actually be better suited for RN operations East of Suez, and could work comfortably with the FEARLESS class assault ships and BULWARK class commando carriers. How unfortunate that the role disappeared....

In the Falklands, they'd be quite useful. Assuming that the ATLANTIC CONVEYOR is still hit, one ship (being larger) is detailed to ferry the Guards regiments to Bluff Cove. With a single, bigger target, at least five bombs hit, and the unfortunate assault logistic transport will probably go the way of SIR GALAHAD, causing severe loss of life - probably worse than OTL, given the concentration of personnel and damage.

It's likely that a replacement is ordered, and that all four ships are kept rather than OTL's drawdown from six to four LSLs, being replaced in the mid-2000s by BAY class ships.

I was under the impression that the debacle at Bluff Cove was caused by the limit of the logistics train, due to a shortage of helicopters after the Atlantic Conveyor was hit.

With 6 Fearless class with each carrying 5 SeaKings or Wessex, an increase of 20 helicopters, wouldn't that negate the need for the Guards to be sea transported to Bluff Cove and instead be moved by helicopter, and thus not be open to air attack.

Regards filers
 
I was under the impression that the debacle at Bluff Cove was caused by the limit of the logistics train, due to a shortage of helicopters after the Atlantic Conveyor was hit.
Correct, which is why I'm assuming the ATLANTIC CONVEYOR is still hit. If not, it makes the discussion pointless.
With 6 Fearless class with each carrying 5 SeaKings or Wessex, an increase of 20 helicopters, wouldn't that negate the need for the Guards to be sea transported to Bluff Cove and instead be moved by helicopter, and thus not be open to air attack.
It would, but you wouldn't get six FEARLESS class. You'd get two, and some cargo ships of some design. Which is what happened in OTL, and what I'm proposing. The requirements for the FEARLESS class and for the LSLs are totally different, and one can't substitute for the other any more than either can substitute for a commando carrier. More assault ships won't make up for a shortfall in amphibious cargo shipping, which is what the LSLs were designed for. Very, very different design requirements.

Quite apart from that, the FEARLESS class couldn't and didn't carry five helicopters apiece. If they had, then the ten helicopters carried by the two that actually existed would have made the loss of the ATLANTIC CONVEYOR an inconvenience rather than a body blow. They didn't, because the ships couldn't support the helicopters.

What they could do, was have helicopters from an aviation ship land on to pick up troops, effectively operating as an extension to the flight deck for a commando carrier.
 
I was under the impression that the debacle at Bluff Cove was caused by the limit of the logistics train, due to a shortage of helicopters after the Atlantic Conveyor was hit.

Partially, although from memory the WG also ignored advice from a Royal Marine officer to get ashore as soon as possible because they were in view of Argentinian OPs. They could also have disembarked at Fitzroy but their 2i/c didn't want to leave his men with a 16 mile tab (were the WG the bn that had come straight off public duties so weren't 100% 'battle fit'?) so they waited aboard until they got to Bluff Cove.
 
Partially, although from memory the WG also ignored advice from a Royal Marine officer to get ashore as soon as possible because they were in view of Argentinian OPs. They could also have disembarked at Fitzroy but their 2i/c didn't want to leave his men with a 16 mile tab (were the WG the bn that had come straight off public duties so weren't 100% 'battle fit'?) so they waited aboard until they got to Bluff Cove.

Yes Royal Marine Officers who also happen to be Subject Matter Experts on Assault landings and all such things cannot possibly think that they can just waltz up to a Guards Lt Colonel (who exist on a higher plane than normal Lt Colonels) and start telling him what to do!

Bloody professional know it alls!!!!

I believe that the Assumption was to have got the men ashore before first light and then unloaded the heavy equipment as the assumption was that the ships would be bombed - it was just a matter of when.

However his nibs decided that he did not want to unload his men with out the equipment in case the had a opportunity to 'bound' again and unload closer

What should Actually have happened (The Guards Mafia not withstanding) is that the Welsh Guards should have taken over security for San Carlos and Goose Green + POW Security etc freeing up 40 Commando for the proper grown up work as they were far more able to and better equipped to operate in such terrain.

This would have given the British Commander 3 Marine and 2 Parachute Battalions in place a day or 2 earlier to launch their attacks

Also regarding numbers of 'Junglies' and other transport Helo's - they were largely concerned almost 24 hours a day with moving up the 105mm Artillery batteries + necessary equipment, Moving and Resupplying the Rapier Batteries who where scattered about hills etc, Medivac missions, bringing up supplies (including a big pallet of Mars bars) - none of which could move itself.

Had the Additional Chinnoks and other Helos survived Atlantic Conveyor then then its very likely that the Battalions would have been used in an Air - mobile role and the Words Tabbing or Yomping would be less well known today.
 
The LSL's were originally RASC ships to replace earlier LCT's, cant see the RASC going for a LPD design.
 
The LSL's were originally RASC ships to replace earlier LCT's, cant see the RASC going for a LPD design.
Thinking about it, their successors are actually these guys:
800px-Merchant_Vessel_Hartland_Point_Carrying_Military_Equipment_During_Cougar_12_MOD_45154449.jpg
 
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