PC: US Presidents List w/o JFK dead

JFK living post-1963 produces many butterflies. So what do you think of this list:

1961-1969 - John F. Kennedy (D)

1969-1977 - Ronald Reagan (R)

-Without RFK killed. The consensus is that with RFK the Democrat nominee, Republicans would flock to Reagan instead if Nixon.


So who would replace Reagan?

Also, what are good books on US Politics, Elections and insights?
 
This all depends on how JFK handles the Vietnam War and how the economy is faring in 1968. These issues had a domino effect on presidencies to come. If Kennedy's presidency is domestically successful, LBJ will ride off of JFK's legacy and be seen as his true successor, allowing him to win the nomination. That deviates from the premise entirely, but there's no guarantee that Ronald Reagan would be able to win the nomination so easily in 1968 or that RFK would be the nominee. Reagan's conservative ideas were seen as too radical for 1968, and so the establishment turned to a former VP during an era of prosperity as a safe nominee who almost won.
 
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This all depends on how JFK handles the Vietnam War and how the economy is faring in 1968. These issues had a domino effect on presidencies to come. If Kennedy's presidency is domestically successful, LBJ will ride off of JFK's legacy and be seen as his true successor, allowing him to win the nomination. That deviates from the premise entirely, but there's no guarantee that Ronald Reagan would be able to win the nomination so easily in 1968 or that RFK would be the nominee. Reagan's conservative ideas were seen as too radical for 1968, and so the establishment turned to a former VP during an era of prosperity as a safe nominee who almost won.

Considering that LBJ and Kennedy did not get along at all, he might possibly be replaced
 
I think Johnson's health would make it hard for him to run in 1968, plus the VP is candidate tradition had not been established.

I do NOT think Reagan would have been elected. If nominated Democrats would call him Goldwater mark 2, plus his opposition to medicare would hurt him a lot.

Here is an interesting, although unlikely speculation.

Reagan runs and loses by almost as much as Goldwater and does NOT carry California.

1972 Kennedy + Democrat fatigue is strong. Republicans decide to show they have changed

Run Brook/ Chase Smith ticket
 
Kennedy wins 1964 by a narrower margin than Johnson did in real life. However, feeling more confident of victory than 1960, Kennedy dumps Johnson (whom he dislikes and his brother loathes) from the ticket, perhaps in favour of Al Gore Senior (Gore balances things without being (1) Johnson or (2) tied to the southern manifesto). Kennedy faces difficulty getting meaningful Civil Rights through Congress, due to a smaller majority and less legislative ability than Johnson. This delays the Southern Realignment, but the continued tension between the different wings of the party will cause problems further down the line.

Reagan would not win 1968 - at this point he's considered a nut, and the Goldwaterites have already failed (though not on the scale of OTL). Someone like George Romney might be a better bet.
 
John F. Kennedy (January 20, 1961 - January 20, 1969)
Lyndon B. Johnson (January 20, 1969 - January 20, 1977)
Ronald Reagan (January 20, 1977 - January 20, 1981)
Jimmy Carter (January 20, 1981 - March 30, 1981)
Walter Mondale (March 30, 1981 - January 20, 1985)
Bob Dole (January 20, 1985 - January 20, 1993)
Bill Clinton (January 20, 1993 - January 20, 2001)
Al Gore (January 20, 2001 - January 20, 2005)
John McCain (January 20, 2005 - January 20, 2009)
Hillary Clinton (January 20, 2009 - January 20, 2017)
 
Kennedy did not want LBJ to be president, LBJ was slipping in terms of prestige as it was, and by this alternate 1968, why vote for LBJ? More likely the Democrats would run Hubert Humphrey, and one who had been allowed to remained a happy warrior in the Senate to boot. My personal opinion on the matter, after years of thinking on this, is that it would be Humphrey against Reagan. Nixon only got the wheels spinning in his head after JFK was killed. He had settled in a rather happy, self fulfilling life in New York. No JFK assassination, no temptation. Robert Kennedy was too green for 1968, and would have only been in the cabinet (AG 1961-1964/65, Sec. Def 1964/65-1969). And I do not believe he would have felt the need to run for president that year. After that, who knows where the presidential history goes. It may involved names we know, but it will surely involve names we don't. We can hypothesize the near future to the POD, but beyond that, too many variables are possible to know well enough to put it into writing. It's like a ship too far over the horizon.
 

undeadpixel

Banned
John F. Kennedy (January 20, 1961 - January 20, 1969)
Lyndon B. Johnson (January 20, 1969 - January 20, 1977)
Ronald Reagan (January 20, 1977 - January 20, 1981)
Jimmy Carter (January 20, 1981 - March 30, 1981)
Walter Mondale (March 30, 1981 - January 20, 1985)
Bob Dole (January 20, 1985 - January 20, 1993)
Bill Clinton (January 20, 1993 - January 20, 2001)
Al Gore (January 20, 2001 - January 20, 2005)
John McCain (January 20, 2005 - January 20, 2009)
Hillary Clinton (January 20, 2009 - January 20, 2017)
Barack Obama (January 20, 2017 - January 20, 2025)
 
Considering that LBJ and Kennedy did not get along at all, he might possibly be replaced
I was considering that, but who would he be replaced by and when? LBJ could blackmail JFK again with evidence of marital infidelity, which would cost the Dems a close election against Goldwater.
 
I was considering that, but who would he be replaced by and when? LBJ could blackmail JFK again with evidence of marital infidelity, which would cost the Dems a close election against Goldwater.

LBJ never blackmailed Kennedy to begin with. In any event, Johnson was a serial adulterer himself, and he would not cause civil war in the party in 1964. The part that is debatable is if he would be replaced in 1964. There are indications for it, where we have heard so and so say that he made an offer to Terry Sanford or George Smathers, and there are statements against it where so and so says he flatly denied it. However, I do not feel he would drop Johnson in 1964. It would alienate the South, and there was no one who could make up for Johnson. Not George Smathers. Certainly not Terry Sanford.
 
John F. Kennedy (January 20, 1961 - January 20, 1969)
Lyndon B. Johnson (January 20, 1969 - January 20, 1977)
Ronald Reagan (January 20, 1977 - January 20, 1981)
Jimmy Carter (January 20, 1981 - March 30, 1981)
Walter Mondale (March 30, 1981 - January 20, 1985)
Bob Dole (January 20, 1985 - January 20, 1993)
Bill Clinton (January 20, 1993 - January 20, 2001)
Al Gore (January 20, 2001 - January 20, 2005)
John McCain (January 20, 2005 - January 20, 2009)
Hillary Clinton (January 20, 2009 - January 20, 2017)
If Kennedy flubs Vietnam, Nixon likely wins in '68. If LBJ won, he probably serves only one term , doesn't seek re-election in '72, gives HHH or whoever hissuccessor is his blessings, and dies shortly after the inauguration of the new president. Reagan or Rockefeller are most likely the Republican nominee and can win because of Dem fatigue. RFK could also beat HHH for the nomination
 
If Kennedy flubs Vietnam, Nixon likely wins in '68. If LBJ won, he probably serves only one term , doesn't seek re-election in '72, gives HHH or whoever hissuccessor is his blessings, and dies shortly after the inauguration of the new president. Reagan or Rockefeller are most likely the Republican nominee and can win because of Dem fatigue. RFK could also beat HHH for the nomination

It's grossly dependent on what happens in JFK's presidency. It's my view that Kennedy would do better in Vietnam, but would have worse domestic policy. Without the Great Society, poverty remains a major problem, and delayed civil rights would enrage blacks. With a worse domestic situation, Johnson is likely put up as a sacrificial lamb, but loses by a large-ish margin to some sort of Rockefeller Republican (Romney, or perhaps Rockefeller himself, or maybe even Scranton).
 
It's grossly dependent on what happens in JFK's presidency. It's my view that Kennedy would do better in Vietnam, but would have worse domestic policy. Without the Great Society, poverty remains a major problem, and delayed civil rights would enrage blacks. With a worse domestic situation, Johnson is likely put up as a sacrificial lamb, but loses by a large-ish margin to some sort of Rockefeller Republican (Romney, or perhaps Rockefeller himself, or maybe even Scranton).

The liberal legislation was the work of the liberal legislature. Though the president is a rallying figure for comprehensive ideas, LBJ was not a miracle worker, and he failed to move his programs and plans forward when the Republicans reasserted themselves in 1966. He likewise, just as Kennedy had, failed to pass legislation until 1964, when a new batch of liberals were elected during the landslide. Among those was the Civil Rights Act, which Johnson initially failed to pass, just as Kennedy had, and only succeeded in passing once he had a liberal Congress. Kennedy would face a similar situation of successes and failures based on the composure of Congress and the battles of liberal senators and congressmen there.
 
I think j.f.k keeps Johnson.Nixon faces Johnson in 68.

I reiterate my disagreement. Johnson would not have the prestige by 1968, he would never have proven himself to the liberals, his health may be in shape unbecoming a campaigning candidate, and Kennedy did not believe Johnson was fit to be president. Nixon, meanwhile, is far less likely to run in a universe where there is no disruption and grand temptation such as followed the assassination. I believe Humphrey was a more likely candidate. He'd be an even more prestigious senator and whatever New Frontier legislation got through would be with Humphrey's support. I think Kennedy would view him positively. Not to say he would be the only potential candidate, but I think he'd be a prime candidate.
 
Putting Stu Symington on Kennedy '64's ticket is probably what they'd do. Read "If Kennedy Lived" by Greenfield and you'll see.
 
35. 1961-1969: John F Kennedy (D-MA)
36. 1969-1973: Lyndon Johnson (D-TX) [didn't seek reelection after a stroke in 1971]
37. 1973-1981: Nelson Rockefeller (R-NY) [a more healthy Rocky would die only in 1986]
38. 1981-1989: Jerry Brown (D-CA)
39. 1989-1993: Bob Dole (R-KS)
40. 1993-1997: Sam Nunn (D-GA)
41. 1997-2005: Carroll Campbell (R-SC)
42. 2005-2009: John McCain (R-AZ) [didn't seek reelection]
43. 2009-2017: John F Kennedy Jr (D-MA)
 
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