PC: US offensive on Hanoi

Alcsentre Calanice

Gone Fishin'
Could the US have successfully conducted an amphibious landing in North Vietnam, followed by an offensive on Hanoi?

And would the US have won the war by taking Hanoi and occupying large parts of North Vietnam?
 
Where do you get the troops from? Do you divert troops from the south leaving it vulnerable? Draft more, which will be hugely unpopular at home? Or divert troops from other countries?

Any which way, I can imagine the body count will be huge.

Also, what year?
 
Could also just be that some communist countries - sort of up further North - might not be too enthusiastic about a US invasion?

Ivan
 
That was Johnson's fear, certainly. Whether it was actually realistic- China was in the middle of the Cultural Revolution. They were busy senselessly slaughtering each other in as purge of unbelievable extent and stupidity.

The U.S. Army was in a strange place around Vietnam- doctrinally this is kind of the end of the tactical nuclear age, also the end of Massive Retaliation, insanely vicious when the U.S. had no- one against it and insanely dangerous once they did;

also when they are coming to the realization that the cold war will include a lot of limited actions, proxy wars, even, well, the much maligned term "police action" starts to make sense when actual capital-W War is going to be SAC/NORAD versus RVSN/Voyska PVO.

The U.S. Army, I have seen it suggested (admittedly by a USAF partisan), leapt at Vietnam as a heaven- sent excuse to rebuild their force structures, regain lost ground in interservice politics and lost budget, and deliberately adopted a strategy that would require huge quantities of soldiers, the larger the better. Numbers were a feature, not a bug.

At this point you have to recall that the U.S. lost the Vietnam War by winning all the battles except the invisible ones. In accounts of the war, cockups are legion, but actual defeats very few and far between.

What they couldn't do, and given the domestic imperatives may not even have really tried to, was make the south Vietnamese government look like anything other than an American puppet, or hurt the North badly enough to change it's political imperatives.

The war was not an extension of Vietnamese politics, dubious as Cold War politics, or even American politics in any sense outside the walls of the Pentagon. Even the victories made no sense.

Could they have staged an invasion? Piece of piss. Easy. With the fire support the Navy and Air Force could bring to bear, the NVA would have been thrown into the fight in their hundreds of thousands and slaughtered in their hundreds of thousands just as fast.

North Vietnam would have had a lost generation and then some; the demographics of the place would have been permanently altered. (It was bad enough as it was.) And that might have been the only real effect on the politics, because what do they do then? There's no evidence they had much of a clue for an end game.

Winning the war would have been the easy bit. Westmoreland et al didn't even understand the problem well enough to begin to realize they needed a better plan for winning the peace.
 

Kaze

Banned
There is one other problem that has yet to addressed. The Chinese Army sitting on the Vietnam border doing maneuvers and playing cards waiting for an invasion that never came. The US knew the Chinese army was there, the Chinese knew we knew that the army was there, the US knew that the Chinese knew that - that is why Nixon went to China to make sure the army just stays put.
 
Years ago I read some magazine articles on US planning for this. Proposals for a attack in the Hanoi or Red River basin were rejected. A wide variety of reasons applied, including Chinese intervention, terrain, population and guerillia resistance, a concentration of NVA army elements, among others. Plans considered more viable centered on a landing north of the DMZ and a main attack west to Laos, to cut the Ho Chi Minh Road net work. Secondary attacks north along the coast to cover the flank were included. The one plan I looked at in detail used US forces in I Corps, two Marine divisions & a Army division to execute the operation. A ARVN division would be added in the follow up, and another Army division and ARVN Div would be on hand if needed. That plan exploited that the NVA defense at that time were mostly fixed units, with little mobility. Reserves being mostly light infantry regiments lacking large scale operational ability. What the details of other plans were I cant say.
 
Top