PC: Soviet victory in Soviet-Polish War=softer treatment for Germany?

Soviets hoped that Germany will turn red and join them willingly, which is extremaly unlikely. Military conquest of Germany is beyond Soviet capability at this point. Lenin would ask Germans for peace promising them half of Poland in exchange, just like with his all other treaties he would intend to break it at the moment he is ready for round 2.
 

NoMommsen

Donor
Does this make Communism stronger or weaker in Germany?
It definitly would "strenghten" the reds in Germany - but at least as much also the contra-comministic "rights" and with it the military. In the end could emerge into a (very) short communistic uprising and "civil war" (if one would/could name this the more or less police-like actions taken by the military and still present "Free-Corps"), what would result in an in its possibilities very diminuished red "underground".
 

Deleted member 82118

Soviets hoped that Germany will turn red and join them willingly, which is extremaly unlikely. Military conquest of Germany is beyond Soviet capability at this point. Lenin would ask Germans for peace promising them half of Poland in exchange, just like with his all other treaties he would intend to break it at the moment he is ready for round 2.
Well.. the main Lenin plan was not MILITARY CONQUEST of Germany, but MILITARY HELP GERMAN SOCIALIST REVOLUTION. he hope majority of Germans (and soldiers too) to allied with the Red Army, not to fight wiht them. by the way, German population of Polish East Prussia mostly supported Soviets.
 

NoMommsen

Donor
. by the way, German population of Polish East Prussia mostly supported Soviets.
Aha ... what do you base this statement upon ?

On the plebiscites hold there in 1920 ? ... when even mostly polish and/or "masurian" language regions voted up to 99% pro-germany ?

Plebiszit_Sprache_Ostpreussen_1920.jpg



Or the elctions for the national assambly and Reichstag ? ... which produced until the adjenct of the Nazis always secure seats for the "prussian" monarchistic DNVP ? ... esp. in the regions as depicted above ?
 

Perkeo

Banned
The key difference is that after WW II the USA didn't withdraw back into isolationism like after WW I. So after 1945, the Germans knew a comeback wasn't in the cards because the incredible force of the United States would be brought to bear against them, guaranteed. After WW I America will likely stay aloof if Germany becomes resurgent, leaving a nearly bankrupt Britain and France to deal with it.
That argument goes both ways: Nearly bankrupt Britain and France don't want to deal with a powerful USSR and an unstable Germany that they end up having to defend against the Sowjets.

And don't forget: The Kaiser is gone, the democratic parties have a solid majority in the parliament and the Nazis remain a political dwarf for almost another decade. No one prioritized a hypothetical threat over a real one.
 

CaliGuy

Banned
Aha ... what do you base this statement upon ?

On the plebiscites hold there in 1920 ? ... when even mostly polish and/or "masurian" language regions voted up to 99% pro-germany ?

View attachment 344150


Or the elctions for the national assambly and Reichstag ? ... which produced until the adjenct of the Nazis always secure seats for the "prussian" monarchistic DNVP ? ... esp. in the regions as depicted above ?
Fun fact about the Masurians: In spite of the fact that they were nominally ethnic Poles, most of them emigrated to Germany after the end of World War II (not necessarily immediately--often in the 1950s or later) in spite of the fact that Poland encouraged them to stay. Thus, they were certainly very loyal to Germany.
 
Fun fact about the Masurians: In spite of the fact that they were nominally ethnic Poles, most of them emigrated to Germany after the end of World War II (not necessarily immediately--often in the 1950s or later) in spite of the fact that Poland encouraged them to stay. Thus, they were certainly very loyal to Germany.
They were Lutherans, that alienated them from majority Catholic Poles. Similar situation repeated in Upper Silesia where Polish-speaking Protestants voted for Germany. OTOH Bambrzy (descendants of Catholic German settlers from Bamberg in Franconia who settled in Greater Poland during 18th century) were polonized when Posen was under Prussian rule.
 
The key difference is that after WW II the USA didn't withdraw back into isolationism like after WW I. So after 1945, the Germans knew a comeback wasn't in the cards because the incredible force of the United States would be brought to bear against them, guaranteed. After WW I America will likely stay aloof if Germany becomes resurgent, leaving a nearly bankrupt Britain and France to deal with it.
eh .. maybe the gazillion soviet troops in eastern Germany / Prussia and all of eastern Europe were also maybe a strong deterrent at the end of WW II as well maybe?


back to topic. If the Soviets take Warsaw and annex Poland outright, then yes I would assume that Germany would be allowed to reload and face east. if the fledgling republic can not hold up I would assume that the monarchy would be allowed to return. fascists would have a louder voice that is for sure

Germany would move in to secure the corridor and danzig at the least and memel as I would assume that if Poland falls the Baltics are not far behind
 
Soviets hoped that Germany will turn red and join them willingly, which is extremaly unlikely. Military conquest of Germany is beyond Soviet capability at this point. Lenin would ask Germans for peace promising them half of Poland in exchange, just like with his all other treaties he would intend to break it at the moment he is ready for round 2.

Well.. the main Lenin plan was not MILITARY CONQUEST of Germany, but MILITARY HELP GERMAN SOCIALIST REVOLUTION. he hope majority of Germans (and soldiers too) to allied with the Red Army, not to fight wiht them. by the way, German population of Polish East Prussia mostly supported Soviets.
What he said. One might very reasonably doubt the merits of Lenins assumption. But those are irrelevant for his decision-making. Lenin doesn't have the benefit of hindsight about the likelyhood of success, if he believes that by pushing on he can successfully help the German communists seize power he'll do so.
 
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