PC: Reformed, Democratic Soviet Union joins NATO and/or the EU in the 1990s-beyond

Is it possible to have a reformed, democratic Soviet Union in NATO and/or the EU?

  • Yes

    Votes: 24 39.3%
  • No

    Votes: 37 60.7%

  • Total voters
    61
  • Poll closed .
Let's say that the New Union Treaty in the USSR succeeds and eventually, the Soviet Union turns into a flourishing democracy, the largest power in all of Europe. With that, is it possible that this reformed Soviet Union joins NATO and/or the EU in the 1990s and beyond?

I have seen threads in which Russia joins NATO and/or the EU, but none for a reformed Soviet Union, though:

WI Russia joined NATO?
Have russia to be a member of both nato and european union
Russia in the European Union and NATO
 

Dolan

Banned
A reformed fully democratic and accountable Soviet Union might be actually ends up joining some sort of an extended EU, provided at the same time the East European Communist States also become Democratic ones because of Soviet's hypothetical "Democratic Communism" reform.

Won't be a close relationship, but would be closer to tight economic relationship.
 
From earlier comments and discussions on the forum, it seems that the New Union Treaty is often seens as something of a silver bullet to solve the USSR's problems in the early 1990s. Personally, I suspect that in practice, even if the treaty was signed and implemented, it might have only served to draw out the dissolution of the USSR to a slower process over the decade, not keep the SSRs together in the long term as many seem to envision. The eventual dissolution might have also come about through a later Russian leader seeking to again centralize power in Moscow by undermining the federal structures agreed upon in the Treaty, prompting one or several of the federal states to withdraw/secede from it. This applies especially to Ukraine, the Central Asian states might have been more amenable to stay in a federal structure with Russia, even if Moscow later would have changed the terms to better suit its priorities.

As for a federal USSR turning into a flourishing democracy, I have my doubts. The totalitarian and undemocratic legacy of the Lenin and Stalin periods, and even the echoes of Tsarism, can be still seen in Russia today. In any ATL without PODs prior to the 1990s, reaching the point where the USSR is a flourishing democracy would require a long and uphill struggle. IMO it would also take a honest effort to look at Soviet history without idelogical blinds, to question the very groundwork the USSR was based on, and to address all the repression, terror and atrocities the USSR was involved in and responsible for, a comprehensive process of lustration if you will, to reach a point where democracy in Russia would take root in a deeper sense than just as a facade to show to gullible foreigners.
 
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EU - maybe, afetr a protracted procedure.
NATO - never. It's a paranoid and xenophobic organization created with the specidic aim to "contain" Soviet "aggression".
 
This applies especially to Ukraine, the Central Asian states might have been more amenable to stay in a federal structure with Russia, even if Moscow later would have changed the terms to better suit its priorities.
Taking into account the less than stellar history of democracy in several of the former Central Asian SSRs the main problem for the formation of a truly democratic new Soviet Union would more likely have arisen there.
 
Maybe a violent, expansionist pan-Islamic movement forms and Taliban style regimes seize power from Morocco to Indonesia?

For the scenario to work you would need a common threat to the entire global North and I don't see any other means of covering that wide a geographic area.

A revanchist China might not be enough to get the US and Europe to aid the Russians (outside of the Jack Ryan universe).
 

GeographyDude

Gone Fishin'
Have Russia make the economic transition.

Which is difficult because a lot of its citizens were poor, but boy, did it seem set up for a few rich oligarchs.

Maybe the new laws become pro-labor union. Maybe the new government very publicly develops an eagle eye for quasi-monopolies pushing down farmers — such as tractor companies, pesticides, banks, rail transportation, wholesales, etc. True, farmers in a poorer country are only a small fraction of citizens, but it’s something people know about, and if you get the anti-monopoly policies right here, it bodes well for the rest of the country.

Basically, I’m saying get a mixed economy going right. And if someone wishes to ask, meaning left-leaning? Yes, to a certain extent, left-leaning.
 
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Let's say that the New Union Treaty in the USSR succeeds and eventually, the Soviet Union turns into a flourishing democracy, the largest power in all of Europe. With that, is it possible that this reformed Soviet Union joins NATO and/or the EU in the 1990s and beyond?
No

Because the only way that the Baltic States stay in the Soviet Union is by forceful repression. If it was democratic they would vote to leave.
 
EU - maybe, afetr a protracted procedure.
NATO - never. It's a paranoid and xenophobic organization created with the specidic aim to "contain" Soviet "aggression".
Eh.. So was the Warsaw pact... Designed to repress its people's and contain western ambitions.

Now on joining nato or the EU. That would depend on how much the west is honest in helping the Soviet union.

NATO might be pushing it, but maybe folding nato and the Warsaw pact into the Un.

Again it boils down to are both sides being honest, do both sides really want to be friends

Anything is possible, Germany after the war became friends with France and England. The USA and Japan, USA and China and hell even Vietnam.

So nothing is out of the question.

In reality on the nato bit, if the 2 merged it would need a rebranding.

Now this is based on a soviet union surviving and baltics probably going their own way as well as the rest of Eastern Europe.

If the history goes as it has, then it's more so the honest open help so that trust is built and people don't suffer
 
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