The irony, i come from friday/yuuma prayer and we discussed that, how people celebrated spiritism, the prophet(PABUH) birthday and other things not exist at all in the traditions, maybe the school is a little more in the legalist side but at time make sense, there only two holidays and the principle is monotheism absolute(plus the salat/prayer itself is the only meditation exist)
PC: Muslim Monks
- Thread starter Night Gaul
- Start date
Dolan
Banned
That's the very reason why Traditional Indonesian cultures are dying. The Ulemas has been radicalized to a fault.
Remember that this kind of intolerant, strict, and extremely arabicized Islam IS NOT the Islam that rooted in Indonesia and the South and Southeast Asia. The South East Asian Sufistic traditions is much more open and accepting.
All my Community are Colombians based from Egypt,Palestine and Lebanon, even indonesian visit say those things are considered idolatry nowadays
last admiral
Banned
Anything evidence to back it up? Cause everything nowdays were often kept referred to "Oh, its Wahabbi/Salafism stuff".
Bladerdash, pardon my dornish. Murtad? No, althouhg can bordering on that line. Musyrik? Yes. The core of Islam is monotheism, only ONE god and it is Allah. Offering of sort is considered same as worship, and it was a practise by idoltry worshipper around the world. You DONT make offering to god/Allah, as a god dont need ANYTHING by us human being.
I admit this isnt within my scope of knowledge, but "radicalized" is far strech and a running cliche among netizen to "explain" why islam is violent. The very definition of "radical" is too broad to say this side is this or that to begin with.
I'm sorry if this sound offensive, but this is the shortest and polite way i can think of replying to this.
Me:
My Granpa:
Learning scholars and historians:
Literally no one:
Dolan: ^
Indeed.
Dolan
Banned
And that, my friend, is the exact definition of Intolerance.
Giving offerings to our ancestors and spiritual entities, and keep harmonious relationship between us and the realm of spirits are what defined the Kejawen Muslim traditions, founded by Sunan Kalijaga himself, the one who harmonize Islam with Javanese culture.
That is not intolerance is fixing a mistake some musharikin do with the faith long time ago, who cared some imaginary pagan spirits
Dolan
Banned
And said "Fixing a mistake" involving active discrimination against those of Kejawen Faith, up to and including using active violences since Soeharto started courting the Fundamentalists, and never really rectified in the era of Reformations.
What is wrong with finding inner peace through enlightenment and making peace with the spirit world? Why Allah must feel insecure when we offers incense to honor our ancestors and spiritual entities who protect us, when they themselves are Allah's creation as well? Why are you satisfied having a blind faith when enlightenment could be glanced by seeking within our deepest self?
...
Well, excuse me friend, spirituality is anyone's private business in the end. Close your eyes, take a deep breath, and see with your "mata bathin" (spiritual eyes), and you could see the truth.
Violence is awful but that Kejawen is anything but islam, Alhamdulilah i've meet good sunnies from indonesia itself.
Dude did you've even read the Qu'ran, one of the worst offense is idolatry and giving equal to god, that is since forever with all the prophets and all the people they tried to guide, seriously that is what a natural kafir always say, is just are too insecure what an indonesia is need to adore some fake idols make of a native culture?
Like a good unbeliver, those who are the losers
Dolan
Banned
Look this is a thread about historical alternate development of the Islamic faith. Have the Kejawen movement actually survived in large scale, and the kind of "Muslim Monks" OP asked would be there.
But alas, there is persecution of those with Kejawen beliefs, and thus are often forced to either conform to the masses, or write the faith as anything than Islam. Christianity and Hindu are often used as cover, but the former has their own fundamentalist problem, and the later is distinctively Bali instead of Java.
Well?
Yeah derailed about correcting thing in islamic faith and how is incompatible with the Sunni historical and mainstrean view, as much was followed in Qu'ra and Sunnah, so kejawen might not count as islam at all(i've zero knowledge of shia so not care) so is still on topic, all that disguised paganism might be the only security anchor for javanese but is not islam.
And always an indentity/nation issue that religious.
That is not Sunni at all anyway.
as say is part of the topic, a heresy not count as a view of muslim monks, if you want to change topic JARED, will do them, but i'm answering what is on the table.
A fan of decades of darkness here buddy
Dolan
Banned
Our bad, I admit.
Yet the fact is, there are several historical branches of Sufism that has some sort of Monastic and Ascetic traditions.
But yeah, it is a hot button issue in Indonesia, especially because the Islam *Kejawen* was the Historical Islam that was practised in Java, and most parts of South East Asia from 14th to the last quarter of 20th Century except at Aceh, Malay, and Minangkabau.
Historical-wise, their influence waned as Soeharto tried to court the hardline Muslim intellectuals and they started by stamping out "superstitious beliefs", but in alternate history when Soeharto either never took power or not courting the ICMI, the Kejawen Faith would stay as very influential one.