PC: More Pacific-oriented Japan

More Pacific-oriented Japan - How?

  • UK protectorate of Hawaii, peacefully gained by Japan in 20th century

    Votes: 5 18.5%
  • UK protectorate of Hawaii, militarily gained by Japan in 20th century

    Votes: 1 3.7%
  • Japan gains Philippines in Spanish-Japanese War

    Votes: 22 81.5%
  • German purchase of Philippines from Spain, Japan gains Philippines in WWI

    Votes: 17 63.0%
  • Japan gains Hawaii by royal marriage

    Votes: 5 18.5%
  • UK protectorate of Hawaii gained by Japan through uprising

    Votes: 1 3.7%

  • Total voters
    27

Rush Tarquin

Gone Fishin'
It's sometimes suggested on this board that Japan's military foolhardiness in China (and in general) and its anti-democratic forces domestically can be curbed by diverting Japan's attention away from mainland Asia and towards the Pacific, thus ensuring the navy has more political clout than the army. This thread is to discuss how plausible this idea is.

Also, at the top are some PODs that might by themselves or in combination achieve this goal (without using a Japanese military screw). Select the option(s) which you think are most plausible and can best affect this change.

Edit: I didn't include 'other', because it's more meaningful for you to just elaborate in the thread.
 
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Delvestius

Banned
I voted for the middle two...

All you would need for a Spanish-Japanese war is an opportunity for a spark, or even a fabricated one, like in the Spanish-American war... That would have given them the Philippines. Spain would take the place as the weak, backward European power Japan defeats, and their heads would be turned eastward. Perhaps we would even see Japan as a central power in WWI.

The fourth is plausible, but less so... They didn't give Japan the islands that were promised to them at the treaty of Versailles.
 
I voted for the middle two...

All you would need for a Spanish-Japanese war is an opportunity for a spark, or even a fabricated one, like in the Spanish-American war... That would have given them the Philippines. Spain would take the place as the weak, backward European power Japan defeats, and their heads would be turned eastward. Perhaps we would even see Japan as a central power in WWI.

Unless they join the Central Powers in order to shank the Russians I don't see how that's possible. That would totally screw over the Russians and get the Japanese embroiled on the continent once they overrun Russia's sphere of influence in Manchuria.
 
I don't see how Imperial Japan would ever be able to claim Hawaii. The Phillipines could however quite plausibly transfer to Japanese control via the methods described.

However without a strong 'Control Clique' from a strong IJA, then it is doubtable that Japan would continue far allong the militeristic route/path that led to WWII. Instead you'd have a 'pro-allies' Japan, and China would become the axis power with Germany during WWII.

This would upset the Japanese and you may find Britian calling on the Japs to aid her in the Pacific and ironically Korea and Manchuria along with parts of Coastal China getting annexed for good with the consent of the Allied powers since not even with all the Allies could China be pacified...even with nuclear weapons at the end of the day and you would get the most ridiculous chain of events here....but I digress...
 
I voted for the middle two...

All you would need for a Spanish-Japanese war is an opportunity for a spark, or even a fabricated one, like in the Spanish-American war... That would have given them the Philippines. Spain would take the place as the weak, backward European power Japan defeats, and their heads would be turned eastward. Perhaps we would even see Japan as a central power in WWI.

The fourth is plausible, but less so... They didn't give Japan the islands that were promised to them at the treaty of Versailles.

In 1896 IOTL there was an incident with a Japanese ship which the Spanish suspected of smuggling arms to the Katipunan. A worse spanish mismanagement of that could easily give you the needed spark.
Btw, changes are huge. The outcome gives you a Japan more willing to compromise with Russia on the mainland averting the Russo-Japanese war. Russia remains focused on the Far East, probably acquiring Manchuria and letting Japanese protectorate to be established in Korea.
Russo-British relation remain strained and Russo-German ones more cordial. WWI as we know it is butterflied.
 
Perhaps, sometime in the second half of the 19th Century, Japan could form a diplomatic alliance with the Hawaiian monarchy (or the republic, although by that point it's already very westernized) without actually 'gaining' the islands. This could keep Hawaii an independent state into the 20th Century, and perhaps allow it to modernize to a small degree. It might also influence Hawaiian culture a little.

If the POD is early enough, that is.
 
Perhaps, sometime in the second half of the 19th Century, Japan could form a diplomatic alliance with the Hawaiian monarchy (or the republic, although by that point it's already very westernized) without actually 'gaining' the islands. This could keep Hawaii an independent state into the 20th Century, and perhaps allow it to modernize to a small degree. It might also influence Hawaiian culture a little.

If the POD is early enough, that is.

The Republic of Hawaii forming a diplomatic alliance with Japan is unlikely. Japan has nothing to offer them and the US market for sugar is far larger and profitable.
 
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