PC: Louise de Savoie Marries Louis XII: Children or no?

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900' started by Kellan Sullivan, Aug 13, 2019.

  1. Kellan Sullivan Well-Known Member

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    ISTR reading somewhere that had Charles VIII lived, OTL's Louis XII (then just Louis II, duc d'Orléans) would've married Louise of Savoy, Dowager comtesse d'Angoulême as a second wife (I'm not sure if this would have been in the late 1490s or after Charles' sister, St. Jeanne de Valois died). But the idea of the marriage going through makes me curious as to whether this was simply Charles' way of still attempting to saddle Orléans with a bride that wouldn't give him children, while preventing him from looking elsewhere for a wife?

    Long time ago I read an alt-history/fan-fiction based on The Tudors where Louise winds up as second wife to Henry VII, and much to everyone's surprise gives him three children (a duke of Somerset and a duke of Bedford and a daughter IIRC). It wasn't very good, since the basic mistakes of The Tudors were still in there (Henry VIII only having one full sister named Margaret, who was younger than him, etc), although they got Henry's younger sister's marriage right - to the French (instead of the Portuguese) king, just the wrong one. Since Margie wound up married to François I (which I'm not sure that the pope would've granted a dispensation for). But I digress.

    My question is thus whether Louise would've been able to give Louis (X)II children? And more importantly, would she want to (either marry Louis or give him children)? Since it would damage her own son's chances if she were to have a boy. Although, on the flip side, if Charles Orland (or some other son with Anne of Brittany) were to survive, I'm not sure that Louise would be as worried about her son becoming king.
     
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  2. Jan Olbracht Well-Known Member

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    In such case (Louise having son with d'Orléans) her own son would be moved down the line of succession by... her own son. So what she has to lose?
     
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  3. Kellan Sullivan Well-Known Member

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    This is very true. Do you think she would have better luck giving Louis a son than Anne did?
     
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  4. Ivan Lupo Well-Known Member

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    Even if Louise fails to provide Louis a son in this prospective marriage, François would be able to get direct lessons in future kingship by being at the heart of everything. He would get a headstart on his political education. If Louis straight up resigns himself to not being able to produce his own heir, is there a good chance that Louis could officially adopt his would-be stepson?
     
  5. isabella Well-Known Member

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    Louise was widowed before her 20th birthday so she can very well have other children if she remarried quickly and is highly possible who she and Louis XII would have heirs. A Louis XII/Louise wedding is for me the most realistic option if both Jeanne and Anne are out of the way...
     
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  6. Kellan Sullivan Well-Known Member

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    How do you think Louise becoming queen will affect things? I mean, she played a pretty big role in François' reign - so much so that Leo X referred to the three Angoulême (Louse, François and Marguerite) as the unholy trinity IIRC. Not to mention, at one point she was in negotiations with Alfonsina Orsini, the wife/widow of Piero de Medici (grandmother of Caterina de Medici), can't remember for what, though. And is Louis willing to allow her to do anything in government? He had less of a problem with Anne being duchess of Brittany than Charles VIII did, but she's a sovereign in her own right. Louise is not.
     
  7. isabella Well-Known Member

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    Good question, I think who much will depend by how Louise will try to do things
     
  8. Kellan Sullivan Well-Known Member

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    Would she have been as shrewd in the 1500s as she was in the 1510s-1520s? Or was that more "wisdom comes with age" thing, do you think? Because I get the impression of her being a reasonably strong player in her own right in her son's reign, but I'm unsure of what she was like before that.
     
  9. isabella Well-Known Member

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    She likely was a pretty strong player considering she was widowed young with two children and was quite busy in ruling and preserve Francis’ inheritance and right to the crown
     
  10. Kellan Sullivan Well-Known Member

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    Do you think that by marrying her the whole Suzanne de Bourbon-Alençon match will go through? Maybe with the Conntetable marrying Margot instead?
     
  11. isabella Well-Known Member

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    Keep alive the older brother of Suzanne’s husband or kill off her mother instead of her father or simply let her father live until her wedding and she will marry Alencon. The Connetable is Louis XII’s nephew and Germaine’s brother right? Pretty likely to be an alternative husband for Marguerite.
     
  12. Kellan Sullivan Well-Known Member

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    No. The Connetable de Bourbon (OTL the guy who wed Suzanne). Although a marriage between Margot and Gaston de Foix, duc de Nemours is one I'd love to see happen.
     
  13. isabella Well-Known Member

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    No way in the hell... If Suzanne married Alencon both her OTL husband and his older brother (if he is still alive) will be unable to made good matches and no way in the hell who Louis XII will let one of them marrying a girl close to the throne like Marguerite after swearing to support Suzanne as heiress of her father and Louise for sure will not marry her daughter to a minor lord with little money...
     
  14. Kellan Sullivan Well-Known Member

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    Would being Orléans' stepdaughter make Marguerite a more attractive candidate for Henry VII (should Arthur live) to pursue for his second son, do you think? Or would it not impact that much?
     
  15. isabella Well-Known Member

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    Well Marguerite would be much attractive in any case for the Duke of York, but Catherine of Aragon and Eleanor of Austria are much better matches for the Prince of Wales