PC: Japan opens early in the Napoleonic era

Would it have been possible for the Japanese to open during the Napoleonic wars? Perhaps the British in search of a new markets send a fleet and the Japanese cave? If it is possible for the Japanese to open up in 1808 vs 1868 what are the long term impacts for the colonial race in Asia? Additionally how does China respond to these developments?
 
I wonder what the model for Japan would be right now? New England and Scandinavian development, I guess. An increased use of hydropower and a focus on logging?
 
I don't know if it's quite possible, considering that the Western powers weren't quite desperate for a new market as they were in the later 19th century.
 
Part of the reason for Japan to open up was the fact that China had already been humiliated in conflicts with the West, and Japan was afraid of being in the same situation. Perry's fleet didn't just scare the Japanese into opening up by the virtue of their steam ships. There was also corresponding internal dissent within the country.

If it there would be an early "opening up" of Japan it would probably be from the Dutch or Portuguese.
 
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If it there would be an early "opening up" of Japan it would probably be from the Dutch or Portuguese.

Eh? The Portugeuse did what they could, but failed; and regardless the Portugeuse in Asia tended to operate within the structures of Asian trade networks rather than subverting or taking them over. The Dutch, meanwhile, had no real incentive to open Japan up since they possessed an essential monopoly over trade through Hirado.

If we're talking about the early 19th century (and that's the question, Japan opening in the 17th or 18th century will be a rather different kettle of fish), then I suspect the British are the only ones with the capacity to do it.

Perhaps more successful Napoleon? Britain, cut out of European markets, tries to cultivate alternatives?
 
Well I think the best POD would be a Japanese POD or maybe a Chinese POD, because opening up was much more a choice of the Japanese state. In the OP he refers to 1808 as opposed to 1868 so I think that he is referring to the Meiji opening up policy.
 
The general idea was the British trying to counter the impact of the continental system open up Japan at gun point to trade, perhaps slapping the Japanese around a bit to convince them.
 
I don't know if it's quite possible, considering that the Western powers weren't quite desperate for a new market as they were in the later 19th century.

I wouldn't use the word "desperate". That was several decades later (and not really an American thing). In the 1850s, it was more a case of "supremely casual about the use of arms to open Uncivilised Peoples to the blessings of the world capitalist economy". A trade network had come to exist in the Pacific, thanks to whalers and California gold, and America felt that a precocious island ought not to hold up the advance of capitalist progress.
 
How is this for a POD: In 1808 the HMS Phaeton forced the Japanese at Nagasaki to provide the ships supplies. This greatly riled the Japanese, especially the local diaymo, who mobilized his troops to attack the ships. Lets say he manages to levy his samurai in time, and is able to attack the ships before it leaves harbor, and slaughters the entire crew save a few lucky survivors.

The British hear about this by about 1809 or so, but are preoccupied. But by 1815 they are free to respond, and demand compensation and an apology from the Shogunate. When neither is forthcoming, a task force descends upon Nagasaki, and shells the city, burning it to the ground, and perhaps proceeds to Edo to make the same demands for good measure.

This national humiliation forces a re-evaluation of the policy of isolationism. The Shogun starts making inquiries with the Dutch merchants he allows to trade each year about purchasing Western Arms, and acquiring the services of Western military experts. In exchange for enough silk, the Dutch are happy to provide this. As they had proven repeatedly,the Japanese are fast learners and adapters, and within a decade would be manufacturing their own flintlocks and muskets. However, they would have difficulty creating heavy cannon because they lacked large refineries (this was the case before the Tokugawa Shogunate).

The introduction of Western Technology is a destabilizing factor, and could cause the collapse of the Shogunate, or greatly strengthen it, depending on foreign and local factors.
 
Perhaps more successful Napoleon? Britain, cut out of European markets, tries to cultivate alternatives?

Raffles wanted to open it, actually, and the British did try to seize the Dutch trading post in OTL. I imagine that had they gone through it would have shaken things up...
 
Well I think the best POD would be a Japanese POD or maybe a Chinese POD, because opening up was much more a choice of the Japanese state. In the OP he refers to 1808 as opposed to 1868 so I think that he is referring to the Meiji opening up policy.

If the Macartney mission succeeds getting China to open up, it would be a lot easier to persuade Japan.
 
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