PC: Industrial Ireland
- Thread starter Hades
- Start date
Not very. At what point is there incentive for capital investment into new plant, and who will pay for it? Not saying it's impossible, but it's a consequence to some significant POD elsewhere, I reckon.
What industry there is on the island is in the North - H&W, later Shorts, etc, so there's not a base to grow from - evolution is easier than revolution...
The nearest market is Britain which is already a world leader in heavy industry, and as it falls behind it's because the US is replacing it, supported by a large internal market that Ireland can't replicate.
Interwar, maybe a Rosa's Red Germany or a Communist France might inspire Britain to throw money at Ireland? Big PR barrier to overcome there though.
Avoid WWII post-Munich and maybe the Axis would woo Dublin, but they've got a lot of work to do to modernize Italian and Spanish production and will probably prioritize those first.
Not sure that there's a compelling argument that Irish entry into WWII would have resulted in a lot of money, tooling, or orders going there. I guess if you could get some sort of low-volume domestic aircraft, automobile, or tractor production going via subsidy in the 20s, there would be a chance to expand it here, but it has to be working first, and frankly if Ireland is in the war, the economic hit from pulling men of service age from the workforce and getting quite a few of them killed may well outweigh the advantages of any wartime orders. Maybe a tax-exemption for a French or Dutch aero manufacturer to set up an alternative factory in the 30s, followed by an evacuation of staff in 1940? Might butterfly Shorts move to Belfast?
OTL Germany, Japan and South Korea see heavy investment through the Cold War, but Ireland isn't a buffer against Communist expansion in the same way.
Maybe get a UK Labour Government to go full Trotskyite and the US will seek a counterweight to it?
Late 20th century booms in manufacturing in the Far East are driven by low wages and regulatory costs, but those result in easy labour flight to the UK and EU in Ireland's case, plus competition against German manufacturing in the EU regulatory regime is an ambitious direction to choose to take.
What industry there is on the island is in the North - H&W, later Shorts, etc, so there's not a base to grow from - evolution is easier than revolution...
The nearest market is Britain which is already a world leader in heavy industry, and as it falls behind it's because the US is replacing it, supported by a large internal market that Ireland can't replicate.
Interwar, maybe a Rosa's Red Germany or a Communist France might inspire Britain to throw money at Ireland? Big PR barrier to overcome there though.
Avoid WWII post-Munich and maybe the Axis would woo Dublin, but they've got a lot of work to do to modernize Italian and Spanish production and will probably prioritize those first.
Not sure that there's a compelling argument that Irish entry into WWII would have resulted in a lot of money, tooling, or orders going there. I guess if you could get some sort of low-volume domestic aircraft, automobile, or tractor production going via subsidy in the 20s, there would be a chance to expand it here, but it has to be working first, and frankly if Ireland is in the war, the economic hit from pulling men of service age from the workforce and getting quite a few of them killed may well outweigh the advantages of any wartime orders. Maybe a tax-exemption for a French or Dutch aero manufacturer to set up an alternative factory in the 30s, followed by an evacuation of staff in 1940? Might butterfly Shorts move to Belfast?
OTL Germany, Japan and South Korea see heavy investment through the Cold War, but Ireland isn't a buffer against Communist expansion in the same way.
Maybe get a UK Labour Government to go full Trotskyite and the US will seek a counterweight to it?
Late 20th century booms in manufacturing in the Far East are driven by low wages and regulatory costs, but those result in easy labour flight to the UK and EU in Ireland's case, plus competition against German manufacturing in the EU regulatory regime is an ambitious direction to choose to take.
marathag
Banned
It's not that hard. Let Henry Ford's Anglophobia run stronger, and in 1917, the Complex at Cork is to be far, far larger, and takes the place of Dagenham and later Basildon Plants.
Henry Ford turns Cork into a new Detroit, with many smaller factories feeding Ford of Ireland, with Ford of England and Ford of Germany being assembly plants, using parts from Cork.
Other car companies follow.
The butterflies fly, and Ireland has a larger industrial base by time of WWII, and follow a neutrality policy closer to the USA, with Cash and Carry, as they are producing the Swedish Landsverk L60 light tank under license since 1936
Henry Ford turns Cork into a new Detroit, with many smaller factories feeding Ford of Ireland, with Ford of England and Ford of Germany being assembly plants, using parts from Cork.
Other car companies follow.
The butterflies fly, and Ireland has a larger industrial base by time of WWII, and follow a neutrality policy closer to the USA, with Cash and Carry, as they are producing the Swedish Landsverk L60 light tank under license since 1936
1. Central Powers victory in WW1, followed by Irish independence. More interest in Ireland from both sides and more investment provided.
2. A shorter Great War followed by Irish independence more-or-less as the 1914 GoIA; significantly closer ties and later Dominion status.
3. In general no de Valera would help with this goal.
2. A shorter Great War followed by Irish independence more-or-less as the 1914 GoIA; significantly closer ties and later Dominion status.
3. In general no de Valera would help with this goal.
In the 20's there's not huge spare governmental spending with Ardnacrusha project consuming pretty much everything. As mentioned maybe you get Ford to invest more? Perhaps if the Naval discussions in '27 went further (either the RN Minesweeper squadrons or some version of the Irish proposals) then we might see more of a build up in ship industry (support base at the least) in the lower Cork harbour.
Yes and no, I'm far from a Dev fan but he along with many others were of the mindset of Ireland building up domestic industries, though the Economic War following on form the Great Depression certainly didn't help anything.
Building up domestic industry was indeed on everybodys mind in Ireland but the way DeV went about it, especially later with the economic war and protectionism, meant the small irish industries, while almost having a monopoly on the irish market, had no incentives to expand as they were only producing for the small home market.
Which is why, despite efforts and grants and incentives to grow and expand, quire a few industries were not able to keep up when the first programme for economic expansion was started all those years later.
Development of infrastructure out west (along the Shannon?) Could attract more foreign industry. OTL any time a company wanted to build a factory in Ireland the first thing they did was plonk it out west for employment to those areas. Sounds good, except there was no infrastructure there,so foreign companies took one look and said nope. Many of the branchlines out west couldn't handle any have a freight(the Achill line couldn't even handle one of the smallest irish tank locomotives ) and when the road to dublin is rocky, and that's the main road...well...
There's obviously no way Ireland could keep up with the sheer size of British shipbuilding. But they could invest in stuff like block building and welding and be more efficient than the British ones. Having something of a navy would be helpful for this scheme as well, along with a pile of jobs for men in the navy.
True though that as I said gets you back to the Anglo-Irish relationship where the UK was against the Free State building up naval forces (the Irish side wanted to build up to equivalence with New Zealand). I suppose if the plans around building up an Air Corps might have built up more support industries as well but then again it's back to the old issue.
As I've mentioned before I think the easiest way to get a UK-friendly Ireland is to have Kevin O'Higgins stay the dominant figure in Irish political life. He had the advantage of having both impeccable Nationalist revolutionary credentials and a good working relationship with London to the point of seeing Dominion status as having an upside.
That wouldn't change that fact that we begin with a weak hand - serious debt and limited resources - but it could help.
That wouldn't change that fact that we begin with a weak hand - serious debt and limited resources - but it could help.