PC: French or Dutch New England

Within the English (pre-union with Scotland) empire, New England had the honor of being where the religious dissidents (i.e. puritans) were shoved out of the way. While Virginia was settled for financial motives consistent with traditional colonialism, New England was mostly a dumping ground where the Puritans can burn all the witches they want away from England and the tobacco colonies. With that detail, it looks like the area would be an easy target for a foreign power.

Between 1650-1750, was there any way for the French, Dutch, or any European power with a navy to successfully invade New England, or did New England's neighbors have an even sparser population than they did?
 
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With a PoD before 1600 one can make some French king more interested in founding colonies. Just dumping 1000 Huguenots there will result in French New England

First English colony was not founded until 1609 IIRC so a French one in 1600 can be a success as well
 
With a PoD before 1600 one can make some French king more interested in founding colonies. Just dumping 1000 Huguenots there will result in French New England

First English colony was not founded until 1609 IIRC so a French one in 1600 can be a success as well
I meant 1650 but on the off chance that's too late it's nice knowing that there are options earlier.
 
did New England's neighbors have an even sparser population than they did?
Unfortunately this is the case. The Puritans arrived there in very large number compared to other English colonies, let alone French or Dutch ones.

With a PoD before 1600 one can make some French king more interested in founding colonies. Just dumping 1000 Huguenots there will result in French New England

First English colony was not founded until 1609 IIRC so a French one in 1600 can be a success as well
Why would they want to establish colonies in barren lands in New England? The Pilgrims were the only ones who would settle in such places, and even they initially wanted to go to other place.

A French King would be more interested in nice and/or advantageous places, like St. Lawrence (cold weather but a natural port), or Louisiana.
 
Between 1650-1750, was there any way for the French, Dutch, or any European power with a navy to successfully invade New England, or did New England's neighbors have an even sparser population than they did?
New England received massive settlement, in fact : about 20 000 came in the 1620-40 period.
 
New England received massive settlement, in fact : about 20 000 came in the 1620-40 period.
I honestly thought the Puritans were a smaller minority. Were there enough of them to threaten a second English civil war if they didn't emigrate?

Could the French and Dutch getting Huguenot and German immigrants respectively increase their ranks enough?
 
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I honestly thought the Puritans were a smaller minority. Were there enough of them to threaten a second English civil war if they didn't emigrate?

Could the French and Dutch getting Huguenot and German immigrants respectively increase their ranks enough?
Definitely there was enough, the Huguenot and German immigrants will also help
 
I think that New England would've been split between the French and Dutch if the Pilgrim/Puritans never settled there.
 
I think that New England would've been split between the French and Dutch if the Pilgrim/Puritans never settled there.
Personally, one option I always found interesting would be if the Portuguese tried to make a go of it (after all, technically it was part of the Portuguese Empire at first because it was on that side of the Tordesilhas line), although it would be far out of the way of the major trade routes to India (and, later on, Brazil). It would largely be a secondary side-project, though, which could theoretically also attract colonists not just from northern Portugal but also from Galicia, Asturias, León, and (as with the Spanish Empire) the Basque provinces (and especially the Basque regions, considering how fishermen from that region had long used the nearby Grand Banks as a traditional seasonal fishing ground). It could either be sandwiched between the two or as a partial replacement (to some degree) of New France, concentrated either on Acadie and/or Canada.

Now, if the Portuguese are out of the picture, then there are possibilities. Historically, the Dutch managed to establish forts and trading posts as far east as modern CT and RI, and claimed shoreline as far east as southeastern MA (later New York would also temporarily hold Martha's Vineyard, Nantucket, and Gosnold/the Elizabeth Islands as Dukes County until that was transferred to the Massachusetts Bay Colony). So there's possibility for most of New England to fall under Dutch jurisdiction. Maine is a different story, and in that case I could see how, in whole or in part, it could become of New France - either as part of Acadie and/or part of Canada. If the Dutch also make a move, then a conventional boundary between the two could be the Penobscot River and several of its tribuatary branches. Whether or not the Leiden congregation (i.e. the Pilgrims) still manage to cross is another story, considering how large New Netherland's territory would be, and it doesn't even have to be at the same spot as IOTL. The main difference here would be that Dutch jurisdiction would probably curb a lot of the self-governance of the Pilgrims, even if they make an independent go of it.
 
Unfortunately this is the case. The Puritans arrived there in very large number compared to other English colonies, let alone French or Dutch ones.


Why would they want to establish colonies in barren lands in New England? The Pilgrims were the only ones who would settle in such places, and even they initially wanted to go to other place.

A French King would be more interested in nice and/or advantageous places, like St. Lawrence (cold weather but a natural port), or Louisiana.
The ideal northeast (of OTL USA) settlement would be New York. Good climate and land. Hudson River Valley (and Mohawk River Valley) ties in with St Lawrence watershed for communication with Canadian New France. Would probably be better to use this as a base to grow south, but growth northeast into New England is also feasible. NE does offer lumber/maritime resources, so it does have value, although it isn't the most attractive from a settler colony POV.

It would take a real shift of effort/policy to put France into a NY/NE dominance, but it isn't logistically ASB.

Once you get to 1650, It isn't going to be easy to take over NE, and there isn't much need. France could, if it is putting effort into New France, push its claims in Maine and northern New Hampshire, as well as Acadia/Newfoundland. Going after NE is a lot of effort for minimal gain. Even taking it as an inclusion in a larger spoils of war in some massive French victory over England poses problems, as now you have a sizeable population of non-Catholics.

Earlier, beat the English putting first boots on the ground, yes. Taking it 50 years after the English are there first, no.
 
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