PC: Franco-Spanish Personal Union after the Treaty of Utrecht

At the end of the Spanish Succession War (1700-1714), the Treaty of Utrecht was signed as a compromise between both factions that fought in it -- Philip, Duke of Anjou (Louis XIV's grandson) was confirmed into the spanish throne, but was also obligated to renounce any future claims to the throne of France.
So, my question is: is there any way for France and Spain to end up in personal union after the treaty is signed? Such as by having Britain suffer a successful jacobite rebellion or by having France defeat Britain in a major war (especially the Seven Years' War)? I'm under the impression that the treaty had to be enforced by someone.
 
We should note: the objective of the war from the Bourbon perspective was not personal union between the two kingdoms. Louis XIV felt that Philippe d'Anjou could not renounce his rights to France because this was divinely ordained (the same reason why he thought the Stuart pretender deserved the English throne). But the war was not really about that. It was to ensure that Philippe indeed secured the Spanish throne and all of its related inheritances, while giving France special trading rights with it. No one actually expected him to ever inherit the French throne (he was only 3rd in the succession when the war started, behind his father and brother).
 
Last edited:
Also, one should note that a Personal Union isn't a simple affair, no one in Spain wanted to be ruled from Paris, and vice-versa, you don't need foreign powers to enforce Utrecht, the French and the Spaniards themselves will do it.
 
We should note: the objective of the war from the Bourbon perspective was not personal union between the two kingdoms. Louis XIV felt that Philippe d'Anjou could not renounce his rights to France because this was divinely ordained (the same reason why he thought the Stuart pretender deserved the English throne). But the war was not really about that. It was to ensure that Philippe indeed secured the Spanish throne and all of its related inheritances, while giving France special trading rights with it. No one actually expected him to ever inherit the French throne (he was only 3rd in the succession when the war started, behind his father and brother).
When is the most likely time for a franco-spanish PU, no matter how much that would upset the balance of power?
 
The most likely time for a personal union is before they begin to form nation states. Once France and Spain had become nation states there was little possibility in either state accepting a union.
 
When is the most likely time for a franco-spanish PU, no matter how much that would upset the balance of power?

Well, if the OTL Louis XV had died as an infant, along with all his other relatives (his grandfather, father and brother all died in quick succession), Philippe actually would have been first in line to succeed Louis XIV. Then we have a VERY interesting situation in 1715. Though I think it probably ends up with Philippe abdicating the throne of Spain and taking France, rather than trying to rule both.
 
Well, if the OTL Louis XV had died as an infant, along with all his other relatives (his grandfather, father and brother all died in quick succession), Philippe actually would have been first in line to succeed Louis XIV. Then we have a VERY interesting situation in 1715. Though I think it probably ends up with Philippe abdicating the throne of Spain and taking France, rather than trying to rule both.

That is most likely outcome, especially considering he did actually at one point abdicate the Spanish throne.
 
It can happen, but most likely, it will show in the map as separate countries. The same thing happened between England and Spain from 1556-1558.
 
Last edited:
Top