PC: Formal German-Ottoman alliance?

BigBlueBox

Banned
Is it plausible that Germany and the Ottoman Empire could have enter into a formal alliance sometime after the Austrian annexation of Bosnia and before the Italo-Turkish war? Could Austria-Hungary also join, perhaps due to some agreement offering guarantees to the Ottomans in exchange for recognizing the annexation? How would the other Great Powers react? Would this completely alienate Italy and drive them out of the Triple Alliance? Does it prevent the Italo-Turkish war, and by extension, the Balkan Wars?
 
Hmm, well Romania has a secret treaty with the Central Powers but it came to nowt cos the new king did not back it

Would Germany do an alliance outside of the existing structure? Maybe
 

raharris1973

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Is it plausible that Germany and the Ottoman Empire could have enter into a formal alliance sometime after the Austrian annexation of Bosnia and before the Italo-Turkish war?

Yes - and quite possibly, both signatories could have benefitted.

Could Austria-Hungary also join, perhaps due to some agreement offering guarantees to the Ottomans in exchange for recognizing the annexation?

I don't see why not. After the completion of Bosnian annexation, A-H made a deal with the Young Turks recognizing the change in exchange for compensation.

How would the other Great Powers react?

A-H warmly, especially if invited and informed about the process. Britain, France, and Russia, much more coolly.

Would this completely alienate Italy and drive them out of the Triple Alliance?

I don't know. It's tempting to say yes. But I don't know what factors kept Italy from cutting the cord with the Triple Alliance even after it rapproched with France in 1902, and deepened its anti-Austrian commitments at heart in the 20th century. Those factors might still be operative.

Does it prevent the Italo-Turkish war, and by extension, the Balkan Wars?

Most likely. Especially if Austria-Hungary is a third partner.
 

raharris1973

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So @BigBlueBox, what did you have in mind when you asked the question? What got you asking about the possibility. Or just squirreling it away as a note for a planned TL?
 
The Germans sent a military mission to Constantinople a few years before the war to train Turkish officers and the Russians flipped out and threatened war, so to save face the military mission was severely downgraded.

So no, not really because the Ottos by that piont in time were reduced to a cake waiting for a knife to cut it up.
 

raharris1973

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The Germans sent a military mission to Constantinople a few years before the war to train Turkish officers and the Russians flipped out and threatened war, so to save face the military mission was severely downgraded.

So no, not really because the Ottos by that piont in time were reduced to a cake waiting for a knife to cut it up.

ObWI- Germany says nunya bizness Russia. Then what does Russia do? If Russia mobilizes or DoWs, what attitude will France, and especially Britain, take to this casual belli?
 

raharris1973

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Well the Liman Von Sanders affair was in 1913. The OP is proposing a German-Ottoman deal between 1908 and September 1911. Would Russia feel confident enough to make threats over such an alliance a couple years earlier, and would the Triple Entente be agreed that making a war ultimatum over it what's called for? It's earlier in its recovery from 1904-1905, before the buildup of 1912 started, and possibly soon after they conceded they had to back down over Bosnia.
 
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