PC: Elephants in Iberia?

So, I was wondering:

If the Carthaginians remained dominant in Iberia longer, is it possible that the elephant could be permanently introduced and raised there?

Is the climate suitable for elephants there?

Will they alter to the climate? If so, then how?
 
Elephants can survive in almost any warm climate, from rain forsts to savanna so Spain is well within their natural tolerances.

My main worry is man, as the elephants would have to compete with a growing nation, that prizes ivory for decoration. My feeling is that the elephants would die out due to over hunting before they have a major impact on the environment.
 
I did wonder about this a while back. I think they could be protected by the Punic authorities, as they could trained for warfare and as beasts of burden. Measures should be taken, however to reduce hunting them in North Africa. Elephants used by the Carthaginians were the now extinct North African Forest Elephant, which became extinct in Libya during Roman times and survived in the Sudan up until the 19th century.
 
In point of fact there WERE sizable elephant populations in Iberia for awhile. A combination of hunting and using the poor bastards in war put an end to that... :(
 
No, there weren't elephants in the wild in Iberia in Historical times. The last proboscideanto roam there was the wooly mammoth.
 
The problem of elehpants in Iberia is that the terrain isn't very praticable for them.
Don't forget that the mountainous terrain of Iberia (except maybe for the southern 2/5) would likely avoid an efficient use, aka in open field. Plus, even if the southern part could have elephants, these regions are an open door for northern raids, invasions etc, and any power based, or having holdouts in southern Iberia would more need cavalry to pursue foes than elephantry.

You'll say that you can have two or three states in southern Iberia that could use elephants, but even not regarding the need of protecting from northern attacks, these states would be likely too small for entretening a large enough elephantry for war.
But maybe for prestige, shows, parades, some elephants can be acclimated to southern Iberia.
 
The problem of elehpants in Iberia is that the terrain isn't very praticable for them.
Don't forget that the mountainous terrain of Iberia (except maybe for the southern 2/5) would likely avoid an efficient use, aka in open field. Plus, even if the southern part could have elephants, these regions are an open door for northern raids, invasions etc, and any power based, or having holdouts in southern Iberia would more need cavalry to pursue foes than elephantry.

Indian Elephants live in Nepal, Yunnan, The Deccan, Laos, and many other areas that I think are like Iberia, or even more mountainous.
 
Some proof for this would be good- I'd certainly be very interested! :)

I'm working on it. Realize, I'm talking about North African Elephants, who were--most likely--brought over by the Carthaginians and allowed to establish populations for about the reasons some people have suggested they might. Like I said, they didn't last once the Romans took over. For the same reason that there aren't any North African Elephants left.
 
Indian Elephants live in Nepal, Yunnan, The Deccan, Laos, and many other areas that I think are like Iberia, or even more mountainous.
Indeed, but because of a southern elephantry in India, so by the cultural influence, the prestige of indian states and the need of defese against foreign elephantry it's quite logical.

At the contrary in Iberia, you would have an elephantry without this cultural, influence or prestigious war elephantry.
 
I would like to point out something. The elephants the Carthaginians used were NOT Indian elephants (which might have been possible, since in Antiquity these were found as far west as Iran and even Syria), but instead a now-extinct subspecies of the African elephant, one that was smaller than modern African elephants, and also tamable.

In regard for the extinction of thus subspecies, we can assume that it was a combination of overusage (not so much as war elephants by the Carthaginians, but for arena games by the Romans). At a latest, the subspecies certainly became extinct with the massive environmental changes in the 6th/7th century AD which turned the climate in North Africa much drier, similar to it's modern condition.

In regard for the Carthaginians successfully introducing elephants in Iberia, it might be theoretically possible for them to thrive there (elephants were home in Western Europe during the last interglacial, but this was yet again a different species, namely the European Forest Elephant). But we don't know how well the animals would cope with the situation in long term. I could see them survive in Iberia beyond the 7th century AD, but I don't know how the picture would look like beyond that.
 
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