Are we talking 3 triple turrets?
Shortening anything is going to be tough if you want to get all the engines in.
Shortening anything is going to be tough if you want to get all the engines in.
I am going to plug for a 28 knot better armored Admiral/Hood design
Refit and Repair where built along Revenge lines (with more engine and less armor and gun)
But realistically I think we are looking at the G3s had they been built
Shrug. The thing I wanted was a 24 knot battleship in 1912.
I don't get why you have the Q mount in the middle, I don't think if you start from a clean sheet that putting the aft triple at the stern loses you anything and it should be relatively easy to balance?
(Unless you are going for a G3/O3 style post Jutland protection schema designed to favour magazines over propulsion, and then you might as well go all forward?)
I'm assuming you are not as this ships is definitely older than that, for example the aft 6" are to low and the mixed side belt...
I want the barbette somewhere along that sectional float sausage where I have good void separation between the belt and the barbette, room for the steam lines, room for the mags for the secondaries, have a block coeff of about 0.550 and work in decent armor without the lateral hull strain dropping below unity. Here, I'll show you.
![]()
I got a 24 knot battleship in 1912.
Ersatz Iron Duke, UK battleship laid down 1912
Displacement:
23,225 t light; 24,651 t standard; 25,305 t normal; 25,829 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(631.27 ft / 623.36 ft) x 98.43 ft x (26.25 / 26.67 ft)
(192.41 m / 190.00 m) x 30.00 m x (8.00 / 8.13 m)
Armament:
9 - 13.50" / 343 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1,241.76lbs / 563.25kg shells, 100 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1912 Model
2 x Triple mounts on centreline, forward deck forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
1 x Triple mount on centreline, aft deck centre
18 - 6.10" / 155 mm 45.0 cal guns - 114.59lbs / 51.98kg shells, 250 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1912 Model
18 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
16 below deck mounts
6 - 4.72" / 120 mm 45.0 cal guns - 53.17lbs / 24.12kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1912 Model
6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
6 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 13,328 lbs / 6,046 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 10.8" / 275 mm 249.34 ft / 76.00 m 11.91 ft / 3.63 m
Ends: 4.92" / 125 mm 373.98 ft / 113.99 m 11.91 ft / 3.63 m
Upper: 3.94" / 100 mm 249.34 ft / 76.00 m 8.01 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 62 % of normal length
Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Strengthened structural bulkheads:
2.95" / 75 mm 249.34 ft / 76.00 m 24.08 ft / 7.34 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 98.43 ft / 30.00 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 11.8" / 300 mm 7.87" / 200 mm 7.87" / 200 mm
2nd: 6.10" / 155 mm - 3.94" / 100 mm
3rd: 4.13" / 105 mm - 4.13" / 105 mm
- Box over machinery:
2.95" / 75 mm
Forecastle: 2.95" / 75 mm Quarter deck: 2.95" / 75 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 10.04" / 255 mm, Aft 4.92" / 125 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 51,074 shp / 38,102 Kw = 24.00 kts
Range 4,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,179 tons
Complement:
1,003 - 1,304
Cost:
£2.257 million / $9.030 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2,279 tons, 9.0 %
- Guns: 2,279 tons, 9.0 %
Armour: 7,569 tons, 29.9 %
- Belts: 2,791 tons, 11.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 656 tons, 2.6 %
- Armament: 2,174 tons, 8.6 %
- Armour Deck: 1,670 tons, 6.6 %
- Conning Towers: 278 tons, 1.1 %
Machinery: 2,036 tons, 8.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 11,340 tons, 44.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,081 tons, 8.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
44,984 lbs / 20,404 Kg = 36.5 x 13.5 " / 343 mm shells or 7.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.16
Metacentric height 6.5 ft / 2.0 m
Roll period: 16.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 78 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.91
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.56
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle, low quarterdeck ,
a straight bulbous bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.550 / 0.552
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.33 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 24.97 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
- Forward deck: 20.00 %, 26.25 ft / 8.00 m, 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
- Aft deck: 20.00 %, 26.25 ft / 8.00 m, 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
- Quarter deck: 40.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Average freeboard: 24.28 ft / 7.40 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 68.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 213.4 %
Waterplane Area: 42,819 Square feet or 3,978 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 112 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 215 lbs/sq ft or 1,047 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.00
- Longitudinal: 2.25
- Overall: 1.08
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
Now watch the result for 1912 when I change things.
![]()
Ersatz Iron Duke, UK battleship laid down 1912
Displacement:
25,459 t light; 27,140 t standard; 27,698 t normal; 28,144 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(631.27 ft / 623.36 ft) x 98.43 ft x (26.25 / 26.59 ft)
(192.41 m / 190.00 m) x 30.00 m x (8.00 / 8.11 m)
Armament:
12 - 13.50" / 343 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1,241.76lbs / 563.25kg shells, 100 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1912 Model
2 x Triple mounts on centreline, forward deck forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
2 x Triple mounts on centreline, aft evenly spread
18 - 6.10" / 155 mm 45.0 cal guns - 114.59lbs / 51.98kg shells, 250 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1912 Model
16 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
18 below deck mounts
6 - 4.72" / 120 mm 45.0 cal guns - 53.17lbs / 24.12kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1912 Model
6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
6 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 17,054 lbs / 7,735 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 9.84" / 250 mm 249.34 ft / 76.00 m 11.91 ft / 3.63 m
Ends: 4.92" / 125 mm 373.98 ft / 113.99 m 11.91 ft / 3.63 m
Upper: 3.94" / 100 mm 249.34 ft / 76.00 m 8.01 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 62 % of normal length
Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Strengthened structural bulkheads:
2.95" / 75 mm 249.34 ft / 76.00 m 24.08 ft / 7.34 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 98.43 ft / 30.00 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 11.8" / 300 mm 7.87" / 200 mm 7.87" / 200 mm
2nd: 6.10" / 155 mm - 3.94" / 100 mm
3rd: 4.13" / 105 mm - 4.13" / 105 mm
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 2.95" / 75 mm
Forecastle: 2.95" / 75 mm Quarter deck: 2.95" / 75 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 10.04" / 255 mm, Aft 4.92" / 125 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 33,171 shp / 24,745 Kw = 21.00 kts
Range 3,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,005 tons
Complement:
1,073 - 1,395
Cost:
£2.583 million / $10.333 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2,919 tons, 10.5 %
- Guns: 2,919 tons, 10.5 %
Armour: 8,806 tons, 31.8 %
- Belts: 2,653 tons, 9.6 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 656 tons, 2.4 %
- Armament: 2,732 tons, 9.9 %
- Armour Deck: 2,470 tons, 8.9 %
- Conning Towers: 295 tons, 1.1 %
Machinery: 1,323 tons, 4.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 12,412 tons, 44.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,239 tons, 8.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
51,827 lbs / 23,508 Kg = 42.1 x 13.5 " / 343 mm shells or 8.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.23
Metacentric height 7.2 ft / 2.2 m
Roll period: 15.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.91
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.68
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle, low quarterdeck ,
a straight bulbous bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.602 / 0.604
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.33 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 24.97 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 42 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 36
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
- Forward deck: 20.00 %, 26.25 ft / 8.00 m, 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
- Aft deck: 20.00 %, 26.25 ft / 8.00 m, 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
- Quarter deck: 40.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Average freeboard: 24.28 ft / 7.40 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 65.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 209.5 %
Waterplane Area: 44,957 Square feet or 4,177 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 107 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 227 lbs/sq ft or 1,109 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.03
- Longitudinal: 2.25
- Overall: 1.11
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
I thought there might be some severe compromises. Range is short. The armor is thin. Block coefficient yields a lot more flow drag. She is slow. But I did get a 12 gun broadside out of her!
It was suggested I get rid of the aft deckhouse (secondary steer and fire control, and move the q turret aft. It still turns out that hull lateral load drops below unity and/or block coeff goes up and I lose a knot or 2 or shorten the cruise range or a combo of all attritbutes. What do I give up?
Wet aft secondaries do not bother me as much as wet forward secondaries. (Great White Fleet op-exp.) Given Jutland and the turnaways that Jellicoe was forced to perform, some stern chasers to discourage the Germans would be nice to have. So would more speed and cruiser lines for smart maneuvering and of course torpedo defense from a broader beam.
Are we talking 3 triple turrets?
I will wear that one. Teach me to go straight off wiki.
Brooklyn's main battery? was all 8"/35. She was by "accident" the first all big gun warship to ever see combat, with a 6 barrel broadside that could ladder in.