PC: Distracting Britain

As a fan of Britwanks, it's difficult for me to post something like this :)p), but I was curious of an idea I spawned.

As you're all probably aware, Britain and Russia 'fought' their Great Game for influence in Central Asia during the mid 19th Century. Now, the questions I am asking are:


  • Is it possible for the Great Game to be more intense?
  • Is it possible for Russia to succeed not totally, but enough to cause Britain some issues?
  • Can these issues distract Britain from the greater colonial schemes of the 19th Century (without completely taking it out of the game)?
The Great Game is generally considered to have run between the Russo-Persian Treaty of 1813 and the Anglo-Russian Convention of 1907 (stolen from Wiki), during which a lot happened, such as the rapid colonisation of Africa, colonisation of Southeast Asia, the Franco-Prussian War, the ACW, the Austro-Prussian War, the 1848 Revolutions, etc.

As a general statement, how did the Great Game affect these (and other) key events, and how could a more intense Great Game affect them further?
 
Do the Russians even consider it a "Great Game"? I didn't think they looked at it in similar terms as the British did.
 
Do the Russians even consider it a "Great Game"? I didn't think they looked at it in similar terms as the British did.

in the imperial court maybe, but there were definitely a sizable group of Russians who viewed it as just as important as the British saw it, and crucially they were the ones calling the shots in central Asia
 
According to wiki, the Russian term for it was the 'Tournament of Shadows' which sounds a damn sight cooler.

Regardless of any of this, could a Britain distracted by a rapid Russian advance in Asia be beaten out of it's empire in Africa? Could it lose out in the Pacific?
 
1) Russian Empire wins the Crimean war, all RL reforms are still implemented
2) Causcausian rebels such as Shamil do not get any british aid anymore, thus are pacified more quickly.
3) When the indian rebellion of 1857 starts, combined with the notion of wining a great war recently you could have Russia that actively supports and organizes the rebels,
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Or

1) Russia wants Persia to be her new long term best friend ( persian war against afghanistan for Herat comes tom mind ), and successfully isolates British from the said state. The new friendship results in a russian leased ports/cities on the Indian Ocean.
2) In time, new naval indian ocean squadron of Russians starts playing a role of cutting the British naval communication across the Suez. And by giving a fellow orthodox Ethiopia favorable credits, guns and everything else so she could be the regional force. ( Russian propped Etihopia ruling Eritreia and Somalia that is life threatening to Egypt comes to mind )
3) In any way, you have the needed chaos that prevents London in communication with India in usual swiftness which opens the area for a whole new possibilities in the region.
 

Falkenburg

Monthly Donor
From what I recall the 'Great Game' from a British perspective, was all about protecting the approaches to India.

If Russian success opens other avenues of threat then (unless She is prepared to cede dominion in India), Britain will take whatever actions She feels are necessary to counter that threat.

Up to and including wars against Russia and Persia, should the threat be deemed severe enough.

Though probably more likely to be proxy wars through support for Central Asian Separatists (a la Yukub Beg).

Falkenburg
 
I'd say the most the Russians can get is a port on the Persian gulf and/or influence over Persia. That's still pretty big, but nabbing bits of India isn't going to happen. The supply lines are just too long and Afghanistan is in the way.
 

perfectgeneral

Donor
Monthly Donor
According to wiki, the Russian term for it was the 'Tournament of Shadows' which sounds a damn sight cooler.

Regardless of any of this, could a Britain distracted by a rapid Russian advance in Asia be beaten out of it's empire in Africa? Could it lose out in the Pacific?

In the long term this could prove advantageous to Britain. I think we have struck a new vein of Britwank!

Greater focus on India requires local industrialisation for the war effort and greater political concession on the one hand and greater supervision on the other to prevent subversion and insurrection. You could wind up with a more inclusive view of India that allows early Dominion status within the wider empire.

Pacific and African holdings offer little reward for a lot of effort. This would be a more rational empire, in terms of return on investment and cohesiveness. Hong Kong might be regarded as a loss, but Malacca (Singapore) made plenty of rubber and tin money and is closer to home. A good gateway to guard.

The Great Game begins in 1814.

These two maps cover the state of play pretty well:
West 1815
North and West of the Louisiana Purchase (Russia in Alaska), Belize, British Guyana, Sierra Leon and various islands in the Caribbean and Atlantic
East 1815
The Cape colony, Eastern Australia and India (Russia north of Persia and Tashkent).

While Britain misses out on a lot of Diamonds and Gold in Northern South Africa and Southern Rhodesia, she also skips the Boer wars and no end of police actions.
Western Australia and New Zealand might follow on from existing holdings through expansion.
Oregon and Alaska might be more fiercely contested with focus entirely on Russia, then again they might be split with the USA to keep her out of alliance with Russia. If Britain wound up with everything the far side of the Missouri and Colorado rivers what relations with the USA then?

I could see Palmerston fighting tooth and claw to prevent concessions to the USA. In a Great Game empire his view would count for even more than historically.

I'm going to throw Patagonia in as a wild card. With less involvement in Africa, Arabia and China, might the British have expanded the Falkland Islands holding?

Is there any chance of a squeeze play on Persia by taking Antioch and a Euphrates route to Kuwait from the Ottomans? ASB. The Ottomans need strengthening to counter the Russians. Pro a greater Germany and united Scandinavia for the same reason? Sunjo of Joseon might be bolstered for similar reasons.
Sunjo (1790-1834, reigned 1800-1834) was the 23rd king of the Korean Joseon Dynasty.
 
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What's his name in Afghanistan... The British were very relieved he stood by his recent treaty and didn't use the Indian Mutiny as an excuse to rise up again. Had he done so, British field forces in the Punjab would have been in greater danger of being cut off and obviously distracted by an additional threat, as well IIRC not having access to Pashtun mercenaries, forcing Britain to send regular army units from home to fight their way up to Delhi from Calcutta - a helluva harder job

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
According to wiki, the Russian term for it was the 'Tournament of Shadows' which sounds a damn sight cooler.

That is an awesome name. I am so using that. :D

It does seem like there wasn't much chance for things to be that different as the geography really favours nothing being able to happen.
 

perfectgeneral

Donor
Monthly Donor
What's his name in Afghanistan... The British were very relieved he stood by his recent treaty and didn't use the Indian Mutiny as an excuse to rise up again. Had he done so, British field forces in the Punjab would have been in greater danger of being cut off and obviously distracted by an additional threat, as well IIRC not having access to Pashtun mercenaries, forcing Britain to send regular army units from home to fight their way up to Delhi from Calcutta - a helluva harder job

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
Dost_Mohammad_Khan
We have men and we have rocks in plenty, but we have nothing else.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dost_Mohammad_Khan#cite_note-4
—Dost Mohammad Khan

A central character in any Great Game empire TL. He was an ally during the invasion of Persia too.
 
Persia I think is the key. An invasion through Afghanistan just isn't going to work for the Russians at any point in this time frame - just look at the Third Afghan Wars and Russia's Cold War disaster there.

No, if Russia weants a land route to threaten India directly it would be via Persia. This is less outlandlish when you consider the speed at which Russia goobled up vast Central Asian nations.

Britain would have fought for Persia (and include Outram and Havelock lead an army to victory over the Persians just prior to the Mutiny). Russian influence was always feared in Persia - even after the Entente (See the adventures of Percy Sykes verus the Russians around the time of WWI).

I often wondered how agreesive the Russians would have to be for the British to set up an Anglo-Egyptian style rule over Persia ...and I sometimes wondered about the Ottoman Empire generally.

An early collapse of the Ottoman Empire may trigger a heating up of the Great Game across a wider area.
 
So in the case that the Russians attack Persia, just how far will Britain go? What kind of war would we see and what would the results be like?

What are the future ramifications of this? If Britain is also in support of a stronger Germany, independent Finland and Poland, and a stable Ottoman Empire what does this mean for the future relations of the European powers? I'm thinking WWI-ish, but obviously there are butterflies that could eradicate that entirely.
 
How is a Russian attack into Persia 'distracting Britain' - that's exactly what the Brits would be expecting. I think if you want to district the British you'll have to look outside of Central Asia altogether.
 
How is a Russian attack into Persia 'distracting Britain' - that's exactly what the Brits would be expecting. I think if you want to district the British you'll have to look outside of Central Asia altogether.

Expecting and having to deal with are two different things. With the attack actually happening, the British will have to devote a lot more to the region. In this situation, if you want to talk outside Central Asia, Britain will be propping up Japan and maybe even Korea with as much as they can spare. To protect India they will need to keep Russia as at bay as possible.
 
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