PC/AHC/WI: The US with Ontario valley and Nova Scotia

Thomas1195

Banned
How plausible is it for the US to get both Ontario valley (as per the original Treaty of Paris) AND Nova Scotia, let's say with a POD of 1776?

How would the US political, social, and (internal) economic developments be affected ITTL?
 
I don't think it's possible unless the Quebecois at least assist if not join the revolution and that would require a pod further back making sure Guy Carleton isn't made Governor and Quebec act isn't and/or increase New Englander settlement of Nova Scotia, because Halifax wasn't well defended in the beginning of the war and if Nova Scotia does join they don't want to be the main attention of the British because they are effectively an island at the time.
 
Nova Scotia at the time included the entire Maritimes barring St. John Island/PEI. *New Brunswick and the lower portion of NS proper at the time was mostly American-settled and there had even been some genuine anger over taxation in Halifax itself combined with an incompetent governor, so Patriot sentiment definitely existed. Jonathan Eddy's campaign in 1776 is basically the go-to here, and reports are that a friendly Indian was about to lift the gate to the fort they were besieging that would allow them to take it over and with it, control of *New Brunswick and easy access to barely-defended Nova Scotia (a fresh batch of British troops wouldn't sail for Halifax till later that year...and controlling the major port city with the rest of the colony pro-Patriot isn't gonna do much, it's what happened in Pennsylvania and New York)...but his arm got slashed last second! Just have the fort taken and Eddy's troops (no doubt buoyed by fresh recruits wanting to play with the winning game in town) march into undefended Nova Scotia and set up a patriot government, and boom. Wouldn't be hard to see PEI fall the next year in 1777, it was plagued by debt, raided constantly by Americans (and would only strengthen manyfold with an American NS) and ignored by Parliament and the frustrated governor can just roll over to Patriot forces than get lucky last second with an influx of money and supplies from Parliament.
 
Ontario would likely be a part of the Northwest Territory.
Nova Scotia would likely be the country's 14th founding state. I wonder if the capital would be someplace in the New Brunswick part of the state, given that the more discontented folks lived there.

Does Nova Scotia keep Cape Breton Island? I would think the British could feasibly retain that.

More loyalists will end up in Lower Canada TTL. Perhaps it'd result in Montreal being even more English-speaking. Loyalists probably go to St John/PEI, Cape Breton Island, and Newfoundland (though IIRC the British were weird about restricting settlement there).


The Patriote rebellion could play out pretty differently if it's just Lower Canada. We could see a Canadien Republic in the 1830s.
 

Thomas1195

Banned
Ontario would likely be a part of the Northwest Territory.
Nova Scotia would likely be the country's 14th founding state. I wonder if the capital would be someplace in the New Brunswick part of the state, given that the more discontented folks lived there.
Would the construction of Erie Canal and long-term development of New York be affected with an US with Ontario and Nova Scotia?

Would the main economic centre still be New York ITTL?

And how would political parties differ from OTL?
 
Would the construction of Erie Canal and long-term development of New York be affected with an US with Ontario and Nova Scotia?

Would the main economic centre still be New York ITTL?

Absolutely, the Maritimes at best are part of the greater New England region and that didn't affect the canal, and they're only even farther off than New England proper, the edge of TTL's American influence. As well, all of Ontario is accessible, even more so, with the canal and Great Lakes. The canal was partly to circumvent the St. Lawrence seaway and let an entirely American water route through most of the country be feasible.
 
Would the construction of Erie Canal and long-term development of New York be affected with an US with Ontario and Nova Scotia?

Would the main economic centre still be New York ITTL?

And how would political parties differ from OTL?

I can imagine the Erie Canal would also have a stretch that goes towards Lake Ontario TTL. NYC may be a bit bigger with Ontario's economic activity passing through it.




Nova Scotia will probably be another Upper New England state like Maine, New Hampshire, and Vermont. I wonder if this would affect the perception of what New England is.

Nova Scotia's politics would probably be like Maine's if I had to guess, though with a stronger industrial bent to it due to Halifax.
 
Can you explain more about this?

It'd be an Upper New England mostly-ruralish state with a sizable natural resources extraction industry and agricultural industry that also happens to have a sizable urban area that doesn't quite dominate the whole place. It'd also likely be culturally similar - very yankee, into the federalists and whigs and republicans, etc.
 
I would guess that the fort full of British troops sitting on top of the hill that Halifax spirals up might be part of the reason that they remained in the Empire.
 
There are a lot of threads about the Ontario peninsula being partner of the US where the Nipissing Line is the border.
 

Thomas1195

Banned
Let's assume that Ontario and Nova Scotia would become "New England states". Would "New England" remain more important economically by the end of the 19th century ITTL? We know that unlike OTL New England, TTL "New England" would have plenty of natural resources.
 
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