PC/AHC: Russified East Germany?

Under what realistic circumstances could a Russifed East Germany emerge by the end of the 1970s?

Bonus Points if you postulate how this effects potential reunification and possibly any post-Cold War geopolitical map of Europe
 
Under what realistic circumstances could a Russifed East Germany emerge by the end of the 1970s?

Bonus Points if you postulate how this effects potential reunification and possibly any post-Cold War geopolitical map of Europe

If East Germany has to remain somewhat populated at all,you need a POD far back to even have enough russians to settle.
 
Under what realistic circumstances could a Russifed East Germany emerge by the end of the 1970s?

Bonus Points if you postulate how this effects potential reunification and possibly any post-Cold War geopolitical map of Europe
Maybe a small amount of the exiled peoples of the post war Soviet Union are resettled in East Germany instead of Central Asia or Sibiria.
 
Maybe a small amount of the exiled peoples of the post war Soviet Union are resettled in East Germany instead of Central Asia or Sibiria.

Not nearly enough, there are far too many Germans virtually all of whom identified themselves as Germans. The USSR had population shortage problems after WWII due to the large number of deaths there. They wouldn't be able to ship nearly enough Russians there. About the only way to pull it off is the mass murder or deportation of Germans after the war.
 
Maybe have Kerensky hold onto power in Russia long enough for the Germans to break, and as a result Russia gets a say on the Treaty of Versailles, giving them significant influence over the Slavic territories of the Central Powers, and with East Prussia either being occupied by Russia, or under some sort of Russo-Polish protectorate.

During the interwar years government instability, ethnic tensions, and leftist insurrections result in Russia falling under fascist government after a civil war. The Nazis rise in Germany and WW2 plays out in a similar fashion, with Russia signing a non-aggression treaty with Germany so they can focus on stabilising their Empire, and the Germans eventually turning on them, and Germany ultimately being defeated by an alliance of convenience between Russia and the Allies.

The brutality of the Russian occupation is considerably worse than the Soviets IOTL, with even more violence and ethnic cleansing. When the Cold War breaks out the Russians declare their occupation zone to be a Russian protectorate, reconstituting it as the Prussian State, whilst directly annexing Poland, Czechoslovakia, and East Prussia (which are subsequently ethnically cleansed of Germans). In the Prussian State a cultural and education policy is put in place to encourage "better integration and cooperation with the Russian sphere", which involves the mandatory teaching of Russian and Cyrillic in schools and an immigration policy that encourages the settlement of Russians, and other Slavic populations. Unlike the OTL GDR, the Prussian State takes little to no action with regards to refugees fleeing to the West, even giving it tacit support with regards to Germans, which results in a large out-flowing of ethnic Germans. By 1970, although they remain the largest single group, ethnic Germans/those who speak German as a first language only make up a plurality of the population of the Prussian State, with the rest made up of Russians, Poles, Ukrainians, Jews (who have been "encouraged" to resettle in Prussia by the anti-Semitic Russian government), as well as other Slavic and Baltic minority groups. Mandatory teaching of German is eventually dropped.

Following the fall of Fascism in the 80s the prospects for a peaceful reunification of Germany, a long time goal for the Western powers, are disrupted when a referendum on reunification is narrowly defeated. Attempts to transition to democratic self-government are difficult, with attempts to craft a centrifugal Prussian identity undermined by rising ethnic tensions, which are in turn exacerbated by class tensions (despite making up less than 15% of the population ethic Russians own about 70% of the wealth and dominate government positions). In foreign policy Prussia seeks to expand its hegemony in the Baltic, entering into a union with East Prussia and the Baltic State, both of whom have large Russian populations, greatly angering non-Russian nationalists, who see this as a continuation of Russian colonialism. Ethnic tensions eventually reach a fever pitch resulting in the Baltic Wars of 1993-1999, which ultimately ends with the partitioning of Prussian-Baltic Union between Germany, Poland, Lithuania, Estonia, Latvia, and an ethnically Russian rump Prussian state centred around Danzig, and incorporating East and West Prussia, as well as parts of Lithuania and Eastern Pomerania. Thousands died, millions were displaced, and the region has still to fully recover from the devastation.
 
I think if you want to be nasty, make no pretense if you're stalin. absorb east Germany, begin mandatory retraining, Russian only speaking,
one does not have to be so kind to Poland and just take a corridor connection between Russia, east Prussia, all the way to easy Germany. bonus points this Soviet Union is not putting up a pretense. the Baltics are SSR's as in our time line, but add Poland and east Germany.

German and Polish languages are declared illegal, Russian is the ONLY LANGUAGE. penalty is most severe. massive language programs are put in place. large portions of the east german and polish populations are requisitioned to rebuild the soviet union. breeding incentives are made to increase population, political education is more intense. obstructing the new order is dealt with swiftly and severely. buy 2000 history is history and language is history in these places.

no Khrushchev to replace stalin. so no moderation. these are conquered territories. assimilation is a mandate. also stalin does not allow a west berlin. what can the west do about it honestly?
 
I think if you want to be nasty, make no pretense if you're stalin. absorb east Germany, begin mandatory retraining, Russian only speaking,
one does not have to be so kind to Poland and just take a corridor connection between Russia, east Prussia, all the way to easy Germany. bonus points this Soviet Union is not putting up a pretense. the Baltics are SSR's as in our time line, but add Poland and east Germany.

German and Polish languages are declared illegal, Russian is the ONLY LANGUAGE. penalty is most severe. massive language programs are put in place. large portions of the east german and polish populations are requisitioned to rebuild the soviet union. breeding incentives are made to increase population, political education is more intense. obstructing the new order is dealt with swiftly and severely. buy 2000 history is history and language is history in these places.

no Khrushchev to replace stalin. so no moderation. these are conquered territories. assimilation is a mandate. also stalin does not allow a west berlin. what can the west do about it honestly?

That sort of Russian chauvinism would have been so far out of the scope of Soviet ideology, even to the extent that Stalin embraced Russian nationalism, that I think it's unrealistic, not to mention so over-the-top evil that the backlash, both in those countries as well as within the Communist Party, would make it unenforcible. Even if Stalin was driven to be this cartoonishly evil and is replaced with a hardliner, they would probably tone it down due to pragmatism, or else the Communist block collapses by the early 60s at the latest and Germany would be reunified before long-term Russification could set in.

As for what the West could do. Nukes, and an immensely stronger military and industrial base. Most of the Cold War was the Soviets bluffing, because they knew they wouldn't be able to stand up to the West in a strait fight, especially in the early years of the Cold War. Therefore, I doubt that the Soviets would be willing to antagonise the West that much.
 
the soviets didn't come as liberators in the first place. they came as victors. submit or .. well..
its plausible.. no one in the west was going to oppose them. no one wanted more war. and for what the germans did, the west may just let it pass as retribution
 
Not denying that the Soviets weren't liberators, but there are limits to the extent to which you can bend ideology, and declaring that East Germany and Poland are now Russian, not Soviet but RUSSIAN, is so completely beyond the scope of Soviet ideology you would need an entirely different different Soviet Union to even attempt to do it, and even if they did try that the sheer scope would be impossible to implement. And even if the Allies were suddenly inflicted with such hatred for Germany that they wouldn't mind seeing a large portion of Germany getting screwed over, I doubt that feeling would extend to Poland, and animosity towards Germany aside, there are also the geopolitical concerns of the Allies with regards to Soviet domination of Eastern and Central Europe. Also, the Soviets didn't have a nuclear deterrent until the early 50s, and even after they got one the West would have still been able to outgun and outbomb them. There's saber-rattling and then there's suicide.
 
well the germans didn't balk at scope . Siberia is big

and while the west might be over confident, the situation in may of 45 was different than sept of 45. The soviets spilled most of the blood to victory they knew .. the west knew it. we like to think Normandy won the war, when in fact The soviets won it plan in simple on the eastern front. war sucks, but by may 45 the west woudlnt be able to keep going to Moscow with out severe provocation .. and by that I mean the soviets didn't stop. stalin dictated the terms. which is why eastern Europe wound up screwed for the next 60 years
 
and no offence but you asked for a russified east Germany. short of that .. its not going to happen. the germans/Prussians/poles in east Germany are just not going to forget over night with out brute force applied old school who they are and what they are.. you need two generations of people speaking Russian to make this happen. text books change.. all books are in Russian .. films.. etc.. etc.. older people who don't want change are rounded up .. its the only way. other wise its a 100 year game that the soviets don't have
 
so its all or nothing. it obviously changes soviet doctrine, but do you think if they ask pahazulusta.. skazhyi po rooskyi it will help? the answer is nein
 
That's the thing though, doing all that is so at odds with the ideology and goals of the Soviet Union, or any plausible alternative version of the Soviet Union, and would be so impractical it would require an extraordinary degree of ideological motivation to follow through. I could see a Fascistic or National-Bolshevist Russia doing that, but not a Soviet Union.
 
That's the thing though, doing all that is so at odds with the ideology and goals of the Soviet Union, or any plausible alternative version of the Soviet Union, and would be so impractical it would require an extraordinary degree of ideological motivation to follow through. I could see a Fascistic or National-Bolshevist Russia doing that, but not a Soviet Union.
well its at odds with the French and germans too.. and what of world revolutriya?
 
well its at odds with the French and germans too.. and what of world revolutriya?

just ideologically the east german state was as soviet as you could get with out Being soviet ssr

It's an odd definition of World Revolution that states you can only speak Russian, and whilst the GDR was as Soviet as gulags and collectivisation, they weren't Russian, there is a distinct difference between the two.
 
It's an odd definition of World Revolution that states you can only speak Russian, and whilst the GDR was as Soviet as gulags and collectivisation, they weren't Russian, there is a distinct difference between the two.
such as? if the soviets were more determined in their means what could the germans do? seriously?

it would be like west gernany standing up and saying damnit we want Austria and the Nazis back.. you don't say no when they just leveled your nation to small stones.

with the holocaust full in the press, if played up soviet and eastern European deaths .. the soviets could get away with most anything I would think short of crossing the declared occupation zones.

your asking for a stronger Soviet Union, more determined. so instead of warsaw pact its simply SSR's, but I could envison a vry angry soviet union exacting its revenge
 
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