PC/AHC: Delayed WWI - Can Imperial Germany go Nazi?
- Thread starter Aluma
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There's an entire universe of right-wing thought and political parties out there, of which the Nazis are only a sliver. Which is a big part of why the Nazis are likely to fail or never form at all in a world that's delayed the Great War. In such an environment, there would be no interest in their ideas as opposed to the existing conservative parties and groups.
Doubtful, that's a short-term problem where the left will derive immediate benefit, but the existing right-wing parties almost certainly survive. You'll notice the Depression didn't really affect the party system in the US or the UK or Canada. Something like that can push an already unstable political system like OTL Germany or Japan over the edge, but a generally stable regime will survive, and without another WW1-size catastrophe this Germany will be more like the UK than its OTL self.
I see! Okay, thank you very much
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Well quoting Red Alert Einstein here, since "Hitler is out of the way" could a analogue of Mussolini instead do it(considering this Germany might be more like TTL Italy) or some conservative-noble politician still go full antisemitic when this version of WWI starts?
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Well quoting Red Alert Einstein here, since "Hitler is out of the way" could a analogue of Mussolini instead do it(considering this Germany might be more like TTL Italy) or some conservative-noble politician still go full antisemitic when this version of WWI starts?
Riain
Banned
The global nature of the Great Depression was closely linked to WW1, without WW1 the Wall Street Crash is likely less important in Europe, it might only be a recession. In that scenario a well governed and well represented Germany wold not be particularly vulnerable to extreme political ideologies. Perhaps more importantly a strong surviving Empire would be able to deal with the political street violence where Nazis won elections because they were better at riots and brawls than Communists, the Police and Heer would destroy such thuggish rioters without the political chaos of WW1.
Tbf to Wilhelm that one was probably one of the better decisions he made. Bismarck in 1890 was not the same as in say 1870. His "Kulturkampf" and actions against the Socialists were abject failures that did more damage than good, he was increasingly losing support in the Reichstag and lastly was too stubborn to ever step back from being the top man in the country. Not to mention that his political views clashed with the somewhat more progressive (compared to Bismarck at least) Wilhelm II. There really was no good basis for the two to work well together. As flawed as he was, Wilhelm made the right call.
Maybe in Russia, which even with WW1 delayed would endure serious instability. Having the Tsar's government go after the Jews as a scapegoat wouldn't be too unlikely.
There used to be a poster around here who remarked that if you told someone in 1900 that somebody would commit a massive genocide against Jews in Eastern Europe in a few decades, his first guess would be that the Russians did it, and his second guess would probably be the Poles.
WWI with WWII leadership
Okay here's a new idea:
Could other figures like Mussolini, Churchil, Roosevelt and so on achieve their OTL positions in that world?
Using a threadmark because renaming the whole thread and description would make the conversation up to this point look very confusing but starting another thread without the context of this one doesnt feel right
Tho perhaps if this gets enough replies I can start a WI on the topic
Could other figures like Mussolini, Churchil, Roosevelt and so on achieve their OTL positions in that world?
Using a threadmark because renaming the whole thread and description would make the conversation up to this point look very confusing but starting another thread without the context of this one doesnt feel right
Tho perhaps if this gets enough replies I can start a WI on the topic
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Depends. Churchill and Roosevelt definitely could still reach the same positions given they were mainstream politicians who even came from established political dynasties. Although there's obviously no guarantee they would do so, or that they would have similar political beliefs, since FDR's father was a much more pro-business Bourbon Democrat and Winston switched between the Conservative and Liberal parties IOTL and might have stayed with the Liberals without a war.
Mussolini is a lot less likely to succeed. Not only does he lack the background and connections of the first two, but without a war to split Italian socialists, he's liable to stay on the left and be marginalized. And Stalin is right out, I think, so long as the Tsars still hold power.
Without WWI I think the Tsar wouldnt be dsposed, but there's still famine, the war with the japanese and the growing resentment towards the tsarist authority...
So maybe he's still forced to become a constitutional monarch under a russian "democracy" with many of the members of the would-be communist party of OTL? Tho Stalin himself is probably still too radical for it
As odd as it sounds, in light of subsequent events...
After Prussia took over parts of the PLC (Posen and West Prussia), the Jews were frequently given more favourable treatment, as a sort of "hedge" against restive Poles...
Also, after the Germans had occupied large swathes of former Russian territory late in WWI, the local Jewish population was found to be rather "useful"... as Yiddish and German are somewhat close (and some Jews, particularly in Poland, were fluent in German), they were used as sort of "middlemen" in the military administration of those areas, as relatively few Germans were fluent in, say, Lithuanian...
There was even a "Committee for the Freeing of Russian Jews" that got a favourable hearing from even Hindy and Ludy (neither exactly philo-Semites), though their scheme for a Jewish-led state in the old Pale of Settlement, under Hohenzollern rule, was ultimately discarded...
Israel with the house of Hohenzollern sounds both awesome and hilarious
Like the sort of thing that is called ASB immediately
I can imagine "this thread is cursed" being one of the early comments
Someone tried a DBWI a few months ago on a similar premise, but I don't remember who or much of the details... it didn't last long
Now I feel so tempted to write this as a TL~I can imagine "this thread is cursed" being one of the early comments
Someone tried a DBWI a few months ago on a similar premise, but I don't remember who or much of the details... it didn't last long
But yeah I dont wanna end up as bear food, Hohenzollern Israel just isnt worth the trip to the coventry
Israel in Russia? More likely than you think!
Eh, as long as it's done well, you probably won't wind up well done, and roasting on a spitNow I feel so tempted to write this as a TL~
But yeah I dont wanna end up as bear food, Hohenzollern Israel just isnt worth the trip to the coventry
IIRC it wasn't locked because it offended anyone, but because it was considered role-play...
I did contribute a map to it that I found somewhere (I think in an old Wiki entry that had since been edited away...)
I love it!
Ah okay!Eh, as long as it's done well, you probably won't wind up well done, and roasting on a spit
IIRC it wasn't locked because it offended anyone, but because it was considered role-play...
That's a relief
I would love to write that, though it would have to be a collaborative TL as I lack many info on the early 20th century european politics and I'm pretty busy at the moment with a graphic TL I'm working on that wont be done any time soon... but that said if you or anybody else has a interest on the idea and wanted to do it I would fully support it. I would love to see it through(specially considering the people here are far more knowlegeable on the topic) and would want to help in any way I can(particularly with the POD because delaying WWI is difficult!), so just tag me in if there's any interest on that silly idea, otherwise I'll see what I can do once I'm finished here