PC/AHC: Bolshevik Revolution without the Russian Civil War

Is it possible for the Bolshevik Revolution to still occur in Russia without the country falling into full-scale Civil War or, at the very least, keep the Civil War limited to the initial anti-Bolshevik uprisings and civil conflicts in the countries that broke off from Russia (Finland, Ukraine, the Caucasus, the Baltic, etc.)?

One possible PoD might be that the Bolsheviks are able to secure an earlier and less devastating peace with Germany putting them in a stronger position and avoiding alienating the Left SRs?
 
Not much. The left SRs were outright opposed to peace with Germany, and the reasons for the uprisings, first in the Caucasus and then in Siberia don't disappear. Then, as it nears the end of 1918, you'll see the Entente powers stepping in and supporting various White factions to overthrow the Bolsheviks, an horror and a danger to them with revolutionary fervour spreading over Europe in late 1918/1919.
The civil war was pretty much unavoidable since the dissolution of the Constituent Assembly which happened because the Bolsheviks weren't willing at all to share power with SRs (the right ones, those in majority).
 
There would be civil war in any case, but without the Czech rebellion it might have been much shorter.

Amusingly, Lenin in the spring of 1918 stated that the civil war was basically over! "In the main, however, the task of suppressing the resistance of the exploiters was fulfilled in the period from October 25, 1917, to (approximately) February 1918, or to the surrender of [Ataman] Bogayevsky." http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1918/mar/x03.htm This was obviously way too optimistic, but if the Czechs had not succeeded in opening up a second front in Siberia and the Urals, could not the anti-Bolshevik resistance in the South be defeated considerably earlier than in OTL? (Admittedly, Siberia had plenty of material for anti-Bolshevik rebellion--well-to-do-farmers, Cossacks, etc. But it is hard for me to see them virtually wiping out Sovet power in Siberia in a couple of months without the Czech Legion first providing the spark by seizing one town after another along the rail lines.)
 
I’d have to relisten to the Radio War Nerd episode about the Russian Civil War, but it gave me the impression that the conflict with the Czechs was avoidable. If the Bolsheviks are able to prevent the escape of many of the future White leaders like Denikin and Wrangel who had been put in prison after the Kornilov affair that would also help.
 
The Czechoslovak uprising had more to do with German demands than the Bolsheviks policies, and I hardly see how these demands can be butterflied.
 

iVC

Donor
The Czechoslovak uprising had more to do with German demands than the Bolsheviks policies, and I hardly see how these demands can be butterflied.

Soviet government could simply declare it has 'no control over the distant parts of the realm' while simultaneously furiously shipping the Czech Legion further on the East, to the Vladivostok harbour.

On the other hand, first months after the October coup Soviets were too optimistic. Many of the future White generals and leaders were captured in Moscow and Petrograd and were en masse pardoned and released on parole terms in the first months of 1918. Of course, after being released they rushed to the Don Cossacks and to the South Russia and started the organisation of resistance movement.

They do not needed to be shot, they could simply be held captive.
Many atrocities of the early soviet regime were simply the aftermath of the tasks of keeping the country and power alive while being besieged by White/Allied/anarchic resistance.
 
There is "could" and "would". The thing here is that they weren't that prescient, to the point of knowing what would happen in the future.

On the Czechoslovak legion, the Bolsheviks are pressured by the Germans and that's not a factor they decided to go away with. The Bolshevik policy since Brest-Litovsk was one of detente, not of antagonism with Germany, and that's what caused them troubles at the first place. That attitude was present even before the treaty in case you wonder they change it, and they hadn't much choice since the German army was cutting into collapsing Russian lines like butter in the aftermath of the revolution until the desperate Bolshevik power finally agreed to the terms of the treaty. Plus, Germans were also playing a double game, supplying the Caucasus Whites with arms and ammunitions. If the Bolsheviks hadn't complied with German demands, you would probably have seen Germany escalating its support of the Whites.
 

iVC

Donor
There is "could" and "would". The thing here is that they weren't that prescient, to the point of knowing what would happen in the future.

On the Czechoslovak legion, the Bolsheviks are pressured by the Germans and that's not a factor they decided to go away with. The Bolshevik policy since Brest-Litovsk was one of detente, not of antagonism with Germany, and that's what caused them troubles at the first place. That attitude was present even before the treaty in case you wonder they change it, and they hadn't much choice since the German army was cutting into collapsing Russian lines like butter in the aftermath of the revolution until the desperate Bolshevik power finally agreed to the terms of the treaty. Plus, Germans were also playing a double game, supplying the Caucasus Whites with arms and ammunitions. If the Bolsheviks hadn't complied with German demands, you would probably have seen Germany escalating its support of the Whites.

Czech and Bolshevik forces could easily imitate fake 'struggle somewhere in the middle of nowhere in Siberia' while Lenin and company could report to the Germans that 'they are trying to restrain the Czechs'.
Germany was not too interested in pushing Bolshies too much while bloodbathing on the West Front.
 
If bolsheviks accept the first treaty of Brest litovsk anti Bolshevik resistance would be over by late 1918.

The problem with that is they would likely make a gamble at starting worldwide revolution in late 1918/early 1919
 

iVC

Donor
The problem with that is they would likely make a gamble at starting worldwide revolution in late 1918/early 1919

It's the matter of historic discussion: was Lenin sure about future November revolution in Germany or he was just trying to save first socialist state from being stomped?
 
Czech and Bolshevik forces could easily imitate fake 'struggle somewhere in the middle of nowhere in Siberia' while Lenin and company could report to the Germans that 'they are trying to restrain the Czechs'.
Germany was not too interested in pushing Bolshies too much while bloodbathing on the West Front.
Again, the Bolsheviks were not prescient, could not know their decision to disarm the Czechoslovaks was so ill conceived. You're lending them an intent that is more that of a TL author than what would be acceptable or conceivable by the time's deciders. There isn't going to be such complicated scheme as a "fake struggle", that's contrary to the nature of Bolshevik leadership, to heir behaviour patterns. We can't just make them behaving the way that's convenient to us as ATL authors.
 
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The decision to send Czech troops through Siberia was almost defnontely influenced by german/german puppet forces being within striking distance of their capital having already humiliated them in battle.

The bolsheviks would have all of Ukraine and the baltics and be much more confident to antagonist Germany so would probably ship away the Czechs as quick as possible
 

iVC

Donor
The decision to send Czech troops through Siberia was almost defnontely influenced by german/german puppet forces

Initially the plan was to use Archangelsk and Murmansk ports for sea-shipping the Czechs but it was dismissed due to massive U-boat fears.
 
Initially the plan was to use Archangelsk and Murmansk ports for sea-shipping the Czechs but it was dismissed due to massive U-boat fears.

Weird, Wikipedia page for the legion says that blockades on ports threats meant they were deported through Siberia while the wiki page for the Czechoslovak mutiny says it was due to german pressure.

Not well read up on this tho so I'll defer to you.
 
There would be civil war in any case, but without the Czech rebellion it might have been much shorter.

Amusingly, Lenin in the spring of 1918 stated that the civil war was basically over! "In the main, however, the task of suppressing the resistance of the exploiters was fulfilled in the period from October 25, 1917, to (approximately) February 1918, or to the surrender of [Ataman] Bogayevsky." http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1918/mar/x03.htm This was obviously way too optimistic, but if the Czechs had not succeeded in opening up a second front in Siberia and the Urals, could not the anti-Bolshevik resistance in the South be defeated considerably earlier than in OTL? (Admittedly, Siberia had plenty of material for anti-Bolshevik rebellion--well-to-do-farmers, Cossacks, etc. But it is hard for me to see them virtually wiping out Sovet power in Siberia in a couple of months without the Czech Legion first providing the spark by seizing one town after another along the rail lines.)

I’d have to relisten to the Radio War Nerd episode about the Russian Civil War, but it gave me the impression that the conflict with the Czechs was avoidable.

I'm afraid I'm not all that familiar with the Czech Legion other than the fact that they caused a lot of problems for the Bolsheviks in Siberia. How plausible is it to prevent the revolt and what effect would that have on anti-Bolshevik resistance in Siberia. Their revolt might have sparked a major White uprising but they were still a fairly small, though evidently effective, force.

One consequence I can think of giving the Bolsheviks a stronger position in Siberia is that the execution of the Tsar and his family might have been prevented as it was the White advance on Yekaterinburg, spearheaded by the Czechoslovak Legion, which prompted it.

If the Bolsheviks are able to prevent the escape of many of the future White leaders like Denikin and Wrangel who had been put in prison after the Kornilov affair that would also help.

On the other hand, first months after the October coup Soviets were too optimistic. Many of the future White generals and leaders were captured in Moscow and Petrograd and were en masse pardoned and released on parole terms in the first months of 1918. Of course, after being released they rushed to the Don Cossacks and to the South Russia and started the organisation of resistance movement.

Might the decision to let the Generals go free have been a blessing in disguise for the Bolsheviks? As I understand it the Whites had an abundance of officers and generals who tended to squabble with each other. If the Bolsheviks were to thin the herd, as it were, could it have lead to a more unified command structure?
 
It's the matter of historic discussion: was Lenin sure about future November revolution in Germany or he was just trying to save first socialist state from being stomped?


A debatable point but the attempts to push into western Poland in 1920 even after the major communist uprisings in Germany had been crushed suggests a level of commitment to internationalism.


The bolsheviks foreign policy was far from pragmatic, bear in mind they expected the german army to mutiny on masse in early 1918 when faced with the small red army and it took the massive humiliation of operation faustschlag to convince them otherwise.


I can't be sure that this is what they'd do but I'm pretty certain that they would take a gamble on Central Europe in the winter of 1918/1919 to back up Hungarian and german revolutions.
 
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